Episode 146
Navigating the Intersections of History and Humanity with Callie Boswell
Callie Claire Boswell, a distinguished author and World War II historian, joins us to illuminate the profound impact of legacy and resilience in our lives and communities. Throughout our discourse, we explore how she guides creators, caregivers, and change-makers to transform their narratives into lasting legacies. Boswell's multifaceted approach, encompassing her artistic endeavors and historical insights, underscores the necessity of cherishing and honoring our shared histories. We delve into the complexities of grief, the bittersweet nature of loss, and the importance of nurturing connections that transcend generations. Join us as we engage in a thought-provoking dialogue that invites reflection on the enduring power of storytelling and the human spirit in the face of adversity.
The dialogue unfolds in a profound exploration of historical narratives and personal legacies, featuring the esteemed author and historian Callie Claire Boswell. Throughout our conversation, we delve into the intricate tapestry of World War II history, not merely as a series of events but as a rich narrative that intertwines the lives of those who lived through it. Callie illuminates her journey as a historian, emphasizing her commitment to uncovering the lesser-known stories of individuals who contributed to the war effort, particularly women and marginalized communities. This emphasis on inclusivity and representation is crucial, as it allows us to understand the multifaceted nature of history and the importance of preserving these narratives for future generations.
As we traverse various themes, the conversation takes a poignant turn towards the concepts of death, loss, and resilience. Callie shares her personal experiences with grief, illustrating the bittersweet nature of life where joy and sorrow coexist. She eloquently articulates the struggle of navigating loss while honoring the memories of loved ones, particularly in the context of her recent experiences with the passing of a family friend. In this context, we explore the significance of storytelling as a means of processing grief and its role in creating a lasting legacy. Callie's insights encourage us to reflect on our own lives and the stories we wish to tell, emphasizing the importance of legacy in shaping our identities and the world around us.
Takeaways:
- Callie Claire Boswell, a prominent World War II historian, emphasizes the importance of legacy and resilience in her work.
- Through her artistic endeavors and writing, Callie seeks to inspire creators and caregivers to preserve meaningful narratives.
- The conversation touches on the emotional complexities of loss and the interplay between joy and sorrow in navigating grief.
- Callie discusses her diverse heritage and the significance of recognizing and honoring various cultural backgrounds in family traditions.
Links referenced in this episode:
Transcript
My guest today, Kylie Claire Boswell, is a best selling author, World War II historian and artist who helps creators, caregivers and change makers turn this story into something that lasts.
Speaker A:Whether she's painting, writing, or leading powerful conversations about legacy and resilience, Callie brings heart, humor, and a deep love of beauty to everything she does.
Speaker A:We welcome her to the podcast.
Speaker A:Well, Callie, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker A:How you doing today?
Speaker B:Hi, Keith, how are you?
Speaker A:I am fabulous.
Speaker A:I'm so excited to talk to you.
Speaker A:I love history, so it should be a fun conversation.
Speaker B:You know what, I don't know, it was like meant to be that you and I were speaking this morning because I had done the World War II documentary and I met this gentleman at the nursing home at the, at the assisted living where my, my mother in law had been.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:And that had been such a tough road.
Speaker B:Oh my goodness.
Speaker B:And so meeting him sort of changed everything for our family.
Speaker B:Girl Scouts.
Speaker B:It brought everybody joy.
Speaker B:And so all I was going to say about that is that he passed away on Sunday.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:It's hard.
Speaker B:It's really hard on my little guy who's just seven.
Speaker B:But you know what I love?
Speaker B:I want to talk about your religion, I want to talk about your spiritual self, and I want to talk about, you know, how we all have to sort of keep putting one foot in front of the other each day.
Speaker B:And the bitter, you know, the bittersweet summertime days for me are like I just put a World War II coloring book up online.
Speaker B:And then the same day, you know, Frank dies.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's hard.
Speaker A:It is hard.
Speaker A:Death and loss is so difficult to navigate.
Speaker A:And it's hard because we, while we, especially if you're a Christian, if you've rejoiced in the fact that, you know, they're in a better place.
Speaker A:But there's still that tension of.
Speaker A:Yeah, but you're going to miss them.
Speaker A:You're going to miss the opportunity to spend time with them.
Speaker A:So there is this, this joy mixed with sorrow that kind of melds together and you're.
Speaker A:As you try to move forward in that existence.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's a tough road to hold sometimes.
Speaker B:I think so too.
Speaker B:You know, I'm, my grandparents were Church of the Brethren and the Friends, Quaker Friends.
Speaker B:And some of the, one of the gentlemen at the assisted living, Herbert said, you're a friend.
Speaker B:It's written all over you.
Speaker B:And yet I, I don't really have a formal religion and yet I seem to be involved in so many things because, you know, the masters in World War II history was really about the hidden stories.
Speaker B:So my grandfather was coast guard.
Speaker B:He was trained by the prize fighter Jack Dempsey.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:Yes, I do.
Speaker B:So Keith, his picture sat on my grandparents dresser until the day that, that he died.
Speaker B:And then the day that she died.
Speaker B:And so the training was in Rome, New York.
Speaker B:By complete coincidence, that's where Frank Wall Jr.
Speaker B:Lived.
Speaker B:So I have this image of my mind that perhaps they passed on the street.
Speaker B:And then my grandparents came from a very, what we would consider today a cold patch town.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So all the cultures, all the melting pots.
Speaker B:I know that I greeted you and I told you my joke was about the Mrs. Haney cake.
Speaker B:And that's how we connected.
Speaker B:And she was part of that.
Speaker B:And so today my own nuclear family is mixed heritage, but my extended family is.
Speaker B:Is that cultural melting pot.
Speaker B:And it's so beautiful.
Speaker B:And I think that if you weren't raised with that, it's hard to understand how special, you know, how special that is.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:I'm reading Dr. Clarissa Pinkola Estes, who is.
Speaker B:She does a beautiful piece on the Mother Mary.
Speaker B:I haven't, I haven't read that yet.
Speaker B:But what I have read is the Women who Run with Wolves.
Speaker B:And now I'm reading the Creative Fire.
Speaker B:And she just was saying about how she was also raised in a beautiful melting pot.
Speaker B:I think that I feel more secure in the world than I fear that my children are living in.
Speaker B:How do you feel about that?
Speaker A:That's hard.
Speaker A:My kid.
Speaker A:My family is also very blended.
Speaker A:We are a very diverse family of very diverse backgrounds.
Speaker A:And so my wife and I are interracially married and our kids kind of sometimes struggle with the identity issue.
Speaker A:And I was trying to figure out a way when they were early on, how to describe what they were.
Speaker A:And I said, you're kind of like chocolate swirl ice cream.
Speaker A:You're the best of both.
Speaker B:Yeah, I love it.
Speaker A:Yeah, but you're right.
Speaker A:But what makes our family unique is that we try to approach every new person coming to the family.
Speaker A:Kind of like you would like when we do Thanksgiving dinner.
Speaker A:Here's a good example.
Speaker A:I will do the meat for that dinner, and then I let everybody bring their own favorite dish to the meal.
Speaker A:So it's never the traditional Thanksgiving dinner.
Speaker A:It is Thanksgiving dinner, maybe with a little bit of Asian, a little bit of Mexican.
Speaker A:It's whatever dish you grew up with that you love.
Speaker A:So it's kind of this smorgasbord meal of all of our cultures coming together and we put together and have A family meal together.
Speaker A:So it's kind of a neat way of doing something.
Speaker A:Honoring all the different cultures and honoring our past as well as our traditions.
Speaker B:That's how we do it too.
Speaker B:I mean, food is such a part of my growing up.
Speaker B:You know, I can remember saying to my grandmother, this, this is the same grandmother.
Speaker B:Her name was Pleasant, but so she was a really good cook.
Speaker B:And oh my gosh, Keith, when she passed away, they had the, you know, the funeral.
Speaker B:And then in the hall, all of her girlfriends that she had grown up with.
Speaker B:And one of those girlfriends was her sister in law.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:They'd been together their whole lives through.
Speaker B:And that particular lady, this is my aunt Genevieve, my great aunt.
Speaker B:But she had a Native American father who was mixed race, you know, white, African American, all of it.
Speaker B:And the stories that she told me about how he decided to choose a wife today would be so politically incorrect.
Speaker B:But, but they were so like, how can I deny her story of that?
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then doing all the history in the World War II, that's really fascinating as well, because you, you know, people try to separate the Holocaust from the battle, from the battlefield, and you can't do that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And we're being pushed to that again 80 years later.
Speaker B:And you know what's so interesting is I've had the privilege of meeting some of the most interesting people.
Speaker B:One of the ladies I think you would have really loved to meet, her name was Ruth Gruber and she was a journalist.
Speaker B:And she came to this women's luncheon that I did in Washington D.C. which was so fun.
Speaker B:They knew I liked World War II.
Speaker B:We had these great people, but like Keith, like Jackie Kennedy's secretary sat next to me, Letitia Baldrige.
Speaker B:I mean, like, she, you know, like the wheelchair.
Speaker B:And I would, you know, do get her situated.
Speaker B:And all the things that I'm not, I'm not confident.
Speaker B:I know my kids are learning it, my Girl Scouts are learning it, the Rangers, the brothers that come.
Speaker B:But I'm not confident that people understand that we're always in service.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:And like, that was like the biggest honor for me to wheel her in, sit beside her, make sure she had what she needed.
Speaker B:And then if I got a little story or some little beautiful nugget, how great was that?
Speaker B:And then, you know, this lady with Gruber, she was famous because, well, she was very humble, but she was the one that got the only ship of refugees out of Europe.
Speaker B:And so what had happened was she had interviewed Gertrude Stein, she had written a Book on Russia.
Speaker B:And it was the women.
Speaker B:And so it was Mrs. Roosevelt and it was Secretary.
Speaker B:The Secretary of State Hall's wife, I think her name is Cordelia.
Speaker B:And they had said, listen, this is really bad optics.
Speaker B:Like you're turning these ships away back to whatever hell instead of like finagling something to be able to keep them, you know, the Kwanzaa, etc.
Speaker B:And so they said, listen, this young girl, she had graduated, I think with her PhD.
Speaker B:She graduated college at like 17.
Speaker B:And so her joke to the audience was that Lindbergh was on the top of the fold and she was on the bottom of the fold as the youngest PhD.
Speaker B:But anyways, her story was so fascinating because she had gone to Russia when no one was there.
Speaker B:She had written like a kind of like a more tactical sort of a book.
Speaker B:And what had happened was they sent her to Alaska.
Speaker B:They said, this girl would be great.
Speaker B:You guys are thinking about annexing Alaska.
Speaker B:Let her meet people, do the statistics.
Speaker B:She did that.
Speaker B:And so I'm sitting like really face to face with her.
Speaker B:She's right in my line of vision, you know, and she tells this story about being in Alaska.
Speaker B:And the Secretary of State calls her, the trunk is on the airplane.
Speaker B:She's been there for months and months and months and months.
Speaker B:And she says, listen, you guys all go ahead, I've got to take this call.
Speaker B: Which Even like in: Speaker B:So it was not a small thing that she was getting this one to one call right through, right.
Speaker B:And so she talks to him and makes a plan to go see him and literally hangs up the phone and hears the news that the plane that she was supposed to be on that literally just took off has crashed and killed everyone aboard.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:And so she said, this is in her book Haven.
Speaker B:And so she said, anything that this man asked of me, I was going to do.
Speaker B:So fast forward, she's back in Washington and they say, you are going to go to Europe and you are going to get these political and religious refugees.
Speaker B:However, they cannot just be Jews, they must be all Christians, they must be Roma, them, and you must interview them in person.
Speaker B:And then they meet you at the ship, at the port.
Speaker B:And anyone that did not was not able to make it, whether they had died or whatever.
Speaker B:Those seats were not filled, Keith.
Speaker B:So I think the final number was around 900 of the thousand that she had met in person.
Speaker B:And she had an oss, her mother had come down on the train and to say, what are you going to do to protect my Jewish daughter.
Speaker B:And so all of these feelings of how we employed the four freedoms, you know, FDR's four freedoms, and how we employed our ability to allow people to worship freely were so of the moment then, and they're so of the moment now.
Speaker B:And for me, I. I will not say that I've waffled.
Speaker B:Rather, I have chosen to walk the path before me, but actually, what it's changed for me now is the book, and that's the Native American Spirit Wheel Dream Journal.
Speaker B:And that's more about, I think, the practicality of the physical life that we're leading on earth, led by the formality of nature and that expression of we plant our seeds, are we even planting what we want to do?
Speaker B:I feel like so much has been passionless lately.
Speaker B:Right, of course, that's like our creator part, you know, that's.
Speaker B:That's our God part.
Speaker B:That's saying, what are you.
Speaker B:What are you going to create?
Speaker B:Because if we don't process those things through, they become poisonous, they become toxic if we're not pursuing what it is that we really wish to be doing, and then watering that and then harvesting it and applying that to what happens in life, our projects in life.
Speaker B:So I think, in a way, I've got a lot of the Joseph Campbell in me where I like to see the parallels of all of these wonderful religions and how we can take them and honor them.
Speaker B:And I would say that for me personally, and this is something I spoke with your fellow podcaster Kim Sorrell about, is just the fact that my baseline for religion is about the beneficence, the.
Speaker B:The beneficial humanitarian goodwill.
Speaker B:And if a religion crosses that, then we've got a problem.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:So let's.
Speaker A:I'm going to dig into your work a little bit more because I'm fascinated as to how you got on this pathway that you are.
Speaker A:That you.
Speaker A:That you're doing historical research, kind of.
Speaker A:How did you get on the historical research path?
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:My parents always joked that they were.
Speaker B:That they fell in love with each other because they both loved history.
Speaker B:And we went all over the country, like all the Native American.
Speaker B:My mother's a part of the archaeology.
Speaker B:My dad is an environmentalist.
Speaker B:They love this.
Speaker B:Well, they left us Revolutionary War, Civil War.
Speaker B:We went to all the president's homes.
Speaker B:So that was part of me.
Speaker B:And I read the great writers.
Speaker B:I think that that more than anything, is something that's able to spark imagination.
Speaker B:You know, I think some of the things that we read, Keith, that are a reason that we have a common denominator in our ability to be friends, even though we've never met, like, we know each other.
Speaker B:And I think that's missing in today.
Speaker B:I don't think that people realize what's been subtracted.
Speaker B:The kids are not learning about Native American education.
Speaker B:They don't know.
Speaker B:It doesn't really matter how you say the words.
Speaker B:They have no knowledge, like, indigenous person, you know, Native American Indian.
Speaker B:They don't.
Speaker B:They don't.
Speaker B:Like, it's like you're speaking another language.
Speaker B:And so the things that we were raised with, the cornucopia, the, you know, you draw your hand and you make the feather, and all the traditional stuff we did at Thanksgiving now has been erased through sort of like the political correctness.
Speaker B:And so there's.
Speaker B:There's so much there that I see.
Speaker B:Regardless, story, narrative comes from your parents, your grandparents.
Speaker B:You want to know them better.
Speaker B:And I had a pappy who was special, Keith.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:Every day, somebody different was knocking on the door.
Speaker B:He copied, signed all the loans for anyone that wanted to go to college.
Speaker B:Any picture, he's on his knee fixing a toy.
Speaker B:You know, he had boats, and, gosh darn it, there was no way in the world that you were going to run or not be safe.
Speaker B:Like, he had rules, but he made it fun.
Speaker B:Like the log.
Speaker B:There was the crocodile.
Speaker B:Watch out.
Speaker B:You must walk very slowly and very quietly or you will get bitten and you will never get to the river to have whatever adventure you're about to have.
Speaker B:And so he made it fun and interesting.
Speaker B:And so he was really badly injured when he was 59.
Speaker B:And I think that part of my journey has been wanting to know him better because the parents had separated.
Speaker B:He was hitchhiking from Southwestern PA the whole way to the Finger Lakes of New York by himself.
Speaker B:And he was loving, and he didn't have any bad habits.
Speaker B:They didn't have caffeine.
Speaker B:There was, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, other when.
Speaker B:Other than when he was like 6 or 7 years old and the stepdad had come home every day and said, making my home brew.
Speaker B:Making my home brew.
Speaker B:And the boys broke in and drank it all and got so horribly sick that.
Speaker B:And that was it for him.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And so I think that because he was sort of robbed of retirement because of the injuries on the job site, he was an electrician that I. I did it just to, like, be closer to him in my.
Speaker B:In my heart.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So for me, I think the visual ability came from, you know, I started as a painter, but the visual ability started with reading.
Speaker B:You know, like, if you're not reading like the Hound of the Baskervilles when you're like 9 and 10 years old and envisioning those dogs and the mystery and like hiding your head into the covers and you know, all of that stuff.
Speaker B:But so anyways, that's how it started and I think that's how it should start.
Speaker B:And then I went to Carnegie Mellon and I on the weekends and my dad drove me and he worked in the library to finish his work for the week.
Speaker B:And I had my painting and sculpture.
Speaker B:In fact, I just had the vision of what my senior project was.
Speaker B:And that was a slave.
Speaker B:It was a, it was a full figure that I had done.
Speaker B:Um, and then I went to scad.
Speaker B:Savannah College of Art and Design.
Speaker B:And my mother had said, you know, Cal, we don't think that being a painter is all that there is for you.
Speaker B:You should have like a real skill set.
Speaker B:And so then that was historic preservation and interior design.
Speaker B:And when I came to Washington D.C. i don't think any of the people knew what to do with me.
Speaker B:I was really bright, super confident, sold big multi million dollar jobs to very, very famous people.
Speaker B:And 30 years later, you know, I joke about it, but it's not really a joke.
Speaker B:My claim to fame is that I've never been sued.
Speaker B:And that is because in litigious Washington, because I learned, I knew how to talk to people and I met them at their own level and they knew that I was well meaning and they wanted the best thing for their family and their life.
Speaker B:And I was gonna use their budget and whatever we could get for it.
Speaker B:Whether that budget was 80,000 or a million, you know.
Speaker B:So then when I had kids late in life, I was bored.
Speaker B:So you can't really paint when you've got babies because they'll put things in their mouth and you know what I mean?
Speaker B:And so the dining room table just filled up with all this stuff and I started writing, writing, writing and, and my husband was like, what the heck are you doing?
Speaker B:And I'm like writing and researching.
Speaker B:And so I realized pretty quickly I didn't know how to do the citations and I wanted to make sure I was doing it right.
Speaker B:So I went to American Military University.
Speaker B:And Keith, when I tell you that I went there, it's a remote online school.
Speaker B:They have I think 80,000 students a year.
Speaker B:It's gigantic.
Speaker B:When I tell you that I went there, I physically went there, I took the baby in the carriage, and I went over to Charleston, West Virginia, and I'm like, hi, I'm Callie.
Speaker B:I'm thinking about going here.
Speaker B:I'd like to see the library.
Speaker B:And they're like, this is a remote school.
Speaker B:Yes, I know.
Speaker B:Yes, I understand that.
Speaker B:It's Internet.
Speaker B:Gotcha.
Speaker B:But still.
Speaker B:And so they took me to lunch.
Speaker B:They let me go through the library.
Speaker B:This is just before COVID Hit.
Speaker B:And, you know, so I loved that school.
Speaker B:It was so fascinating, because I honestly can't think of a better way to get your Master's.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker B:I don't think that your bachelor's should be that way.
Speaker B:That should be all of the experiences.
Speaker B:Making new friends, showing up on time, taking care of hygiene, your appointments, your calendar.
Speaker B:But your master's is a different thing.
Speaker B:And for that, I would highly recommend amu, because I had the best professors in the world, and they.
Speaker B:They could have been anywhere.
Speaker B:They could have been living anywhere, studying themselves anywhere.
Speaker B:And all the West Pointers, you know, it was fascinating.
Speaker B:So they were so loving, like, I was really doing.
Speaker B:I didn't.
Speaker B:Nobody told me until afterwards, but I was actually studying public history.
Speaker B:But still, my.
Speaker B:My War in Europe paper is being used as an example to this day.
Speaker B:My military paper, because they had.
Speaker B:You have this, like, wonky game that only, like, true warriors are playing.
Speaker B:And what was crazy about it was it was, like, with a keyboard, and, like, if you hit the wrong button, you're, like, looking at the sky or you're, like, a thousand feet up, you know?
Speaker B:And so what I did with this paper and what the professor really liked about it, he eventually did my thesis.
Speaker B:But what he liked about it was, like.
Speaker B:I was like, okay, well, are those my.
Speaker B:My bombs hitting, like, in the training?
Speaker B:Like, which one were mine?
Speaker B:How can you tell?
Speaker B:Like, there's a guy next to me firing.
Speaker B:There's a guy over here firing.
Speaker B:Am I hitting a target?
Speaker B:I have no idea.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so then.
Speaker B:And then I have vertigo.
Speaker B:And I also do not have a sense of direction.
Speaker B:And sense of direction, by the way, for everybody out there, is genetic.
Speaker A:Oh, good.
Speaker A:So when I get lost, it's not my fault.
Speaker A:I can.
Speaker B:I can tell it's not your fault.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:And so what happened was I decided to just pretend that this was actually the training in World War II.
Speaker B:And if I ran into the forest and I was totally lost and I had no idea what direction I was.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, I don't know.
Speaker B:You know, and you could pick Your battle, I think I was Normandy, but, you know, like, so you're coming out of a house.
Speaker B:And the.
Speaker B:And the teacher just loved it.
Speaker B:He said, cali.
Speaker B:He said, we think that that's what happened to the original band of brothers, the one that Dick Winters, the redheaded guy, if you saw it, the one that he replaced, because every time he was so highly trained, he was so excellent at everything.
Speaker B:He had the game mind of like, you know, like football coach.
Speaker B:Like, this is how we're going to gather.
Speaker B:This is we're going to do.
Speaker B:This is how we're going to get him.
Speaker B:But the problem was he ran in the wrong direction every single time.
Speaker B:That would have been Keith.
Speaker B:I would have lasted 30 seconds, right?
Speaker B:I would not have.
Speaker B:It would not have been good.
Speaker B:And so hopefully that's a question on the questionnaire these days.
Speaker B:I don't know, but if you're going to be a soldier or a Marine, do you have a sense of direction?
Speaker A:I hope my son is an army, so that would be good to know.
Speaker B:It is good to know.
Speaker B:And just don't worry because my dad does have a sense of direction.
Speaker B:And it wasn't until we, like, met my mom's cousins that we realized it.
Speaker B:And then later on I studied about it.
Speaker B:But still, regardless what, what, what it was that story of Pappy and Jack Dempsey, who was a really loving guy now he had gotten himself in trouble and like the 30s where he had kind of like bumped out of the draft or something like that, and he was wearing like polished shoes in a photo and everybody said, ah.
Speaker B:But the.
Speaker B:The reality was that he was like this really awesome guy and he would sit for hours and talk to people.
Speaker B:He had his restaurant in New York City, he would give away money, he would sign autographs.
Speaker B:And so I learned that was actually my first paper was a dual paper on Jack Dempsey and my Pappy.
Speaker B:And what was so funny about it was just because I wondered with my grandfather coming from a broken home, how did.
Speaker B:How is he so kind?
Speaker B:How is he so just like a sweetheart?
Speaker B:And so I think that I see, I understand that friendship in a different way.
Speaker B:I don't even know that they kept in touch, but I know that Jack Dempsey would have recognized my pap on a street and said, hey, you know, hey, Harvey, how are you doing?
Speaker B:So the other thing was that the.
Speaker B:The head General General George C. Marshall, George Katelyn Marshall, was from my parents hometown, my dad's hometown, teeny little nothing town, Uniontown, Pennsylvania.
Speaker B:And so for me, I was fascinated by that.
Speaker B:And that was the second set of papers.
Speaker B:And I've been to his library, which happens to be on the campus of vmi.
Speaker B:And so what my stories all talk about are like, they're like spy stories, but they're real.
Speaker B:So what I do is I say, okay, this is what's happened.
Speaker B:And we're going to drop our historical actors into the play and we're going to say, well, then what did they do?
Speaker B:And so that's how I came up with the, the concepts.
Speaker B:So I just found out this weekend that the thesis the Cabinet War Wives and is going to University Press of Kansas.
Speaker B:So I'm really excited about that at first.
Speaker B:Thank you, sweetie.
Speaker B:You know, like, oh, academia, I don't know how's this going to be?
Speaker B:Are people going to read it?
Speaker B:Are they going to find it?
Speaker B:But you know what?
Speaker B:Everything changes.
Speaker B:And with the Cabinet War Wives, there's really important things that people need to know.
Speaker B:As somebody who is in media, you will appreciate the fact that Eleanor Roosevelt was the first person to speak to the country after the Pearl harbor bombing.
Speaker B:The day before, she was smiling, she was laughing, her picture was on the, in the paper.
Speaker B:She had been at the Army Navy game, I think it was.
Speaker B:The woman wrote an article in 265 papers across the United States, five, six, seven days a week.
Speaker B: in $: Speaker B:When you talk about all of Hollywood coming to the White House and visiting and knowing them and all of that, well, heck, it wasn't just him, it was her, too.
Speaker B:So she was a medium even.
Speaker B:And the relationships were so pivotal for having that homesy, folksy, I'm in your living room, I'm in your kitchen with you feeling.
Speaker B:And that is, I think, so much of why America was so bound together.
Speaker B:That's, I think that was why they were able to succeed and why, you know, George C. Marshall, who really was the prototype of the citizen soldier.
Speaker B:You know, if you, if you see Colin Powell or, you know, Jack Keane, who's on the news a lot now, they, they, they are, they are really saying, like it or not, we are the purveyors of democracy, we are the purveyors of freedom.
Speaker B:No one else is ever going to pick up this stick and run with it the way that we have.
Speaker B:So when everyone else has abandoned it, when everyone else has failed, we will still be here.
Speaker B:And there's, as your son will tell you, they have a dual role that is one of the craziest Most strange roles, and that is that they are the humanitarians.
Speaker B:They are going in, they are holding the babies.
Speaker B:They are.
Speaker B:Their.
Speaker B:Their job is to be so acutely accurate with their killing that they avoid any kind of ancillary injury or death.
Speaker B:I don't think people realize that, that because war is a last resort.
Speaker B:So for the most part, they are the front facing the citizen soldier.
Speaker B:And that is a direct result of World War II, which was such a.
Speaker B:A modern war with the photography and the newspapers and, you know, we don't think about it, but everybody was going to the movies for relaxation.
Speaker B:And in the middle of the movie in those days, you just walked in.
Speaker B:Was movie tone news.
Speaker B:And so Eisenhower, again, you know, here's this guy that was born in a cornfield right now.
Speaker B:His granddaughter.
Speaker B:I adore her.
Speaker B:She.
Speaker B:She's.
Speaker B:She's so complimentary about my knowledge about her family.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But how did he get there, Keith?
Speaker B:Like, how did that happen that he's able to stand on the world stage?
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:How it happened was that everyone in America at that time had a classical education.
Speaker B:They read Greeks.
Speaker B:My parents, who were in their 70s, okay, they had Latin first grade through 12th grade.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:50% of our language is Latin American.
Speaker B:If you do that and you teach kids the root words, in that way, they can go to 20 different countries and understand what they're ordering on the menu, how to get around what the gist of anything means.
Speaker B:But when we subtracted that.
Speaker B:That common language, I think we did ourselves a real disservice because at that time, everyone was speaking a similar language and the cultural and the art and the food, and we were all travelers of the world.
Speaker B:And I don't.
Speaker B:You know, you never hear about all of these World War II people who then, in their 70s and 80s, were traveling the world and like, wrote their names on a Shinto temple, you know, or damaged, you know, some kind of, like, cultural site.
Speaker B:Because they had such respect for life and they had such respect for other cultures because they were being taught geography and they were being taught world history and they were being taught religious history and all of it just in public schools.
Speaker B:And I think that's what we've really subtracted.
Speaker B:So part of me is just sort of like, I think like the.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The bringer of the people's heart, you know, that if the.
Speaker B:The humanitarian and these stories.
Speaker B:Stories do the same thing.
Speaker B:You know, in the Cabinet, War wives, Eleanor Roosevelt, by the end, had been the first lady for 12 years.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:While simultaneously having this huge media presence.
Speaker B:So when we dip into these relationships, and that's what this book does, and no one else has done it before, I'm proud to say.
Speaker B:One of the major relationships is Eleanor Morgenthau.
Speaker B:She was married by the most famous rabbi in the country at that time, but she was not a practicing Jew.
Speaker B:She was not.
Speaker B:She had no interest in her religion.
Speaker B:But then world events forced everyone.
Speaker B:And this is something I'd like you to talk about, forced everyone to pay attention because she was labeled a Jew, whether she was a practicing Jew or not, and she was treated like a Jew.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so when we talk about all of that, you know, our.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:We understand now that our brain stereotypes, that's part of how we learn.
Speaker B:But when we go beyond that and we apply that basis of what our spirituality is, that commonality, then what happens?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:Well, in my tradition, family spiritual tradition, that caretaker part was given to Adam and Eve, of course, by God.
Speaker A:It's like you are the stewards of this.
Speaker A:And I think we have somehow lost that sacred responsibility to be stewards.
Speaker A:Yes, it is.
Speaker A:It is inbred in us to do that.
Speaker A:You know, you name.
Speaker A:Adam named all the animals.
Speaker A:Adam named all the plants and the.
Speaker A:And the thing.
Speaker A:So he took the care to say, this is what this is.
Speaker A:And somehow we just have not remembered to honor that.
Speaker A:And we don't honor life on either end, which is also tragic in my.
Speaker A:In my world that we.
Speaker A:We stop looking at.
Speaker A:Like, you talk about the honoring the babies that.
Speaker A:That next generation.
Speaker A:We are just here to steward that.
Speaker A:The resources that we have because we're leaving it for somebody else.
Speaker A:Yeah, you wouldn't dare go into your house that you own now and just trash it going, well, I only have to live here, but I don't have to.
Speaker A:I don't have to keep it up because at some point you'd like to pass it down to your kids and say, look, we took care of this.
Speaker A:Now you can take care of it and you can sell it.
Speaker A:You can live here.
Speaker A:But we want to pass down something that's valuable to you.
Speaker A:I think we lost that ability to pass down.
Speaker B:Well, I. I wholly agree with you.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:And it was lost.
Speaker B:I think on a lot of levels, it was lost because we've made things too easy for people.
Speaker B:It was lost because you can go to the grocery store and get any kind of vegetable or fruit at any time of the year, Right?
Speaker B:So, like, people don't understand how to grow things.
Speaker B:It's the seasonal.
Speaker B:And so we're starting to bring that Back with, like, environmental charter schools or, you know, where people are turning to homeschooling, et cetera.
Speaker B:But I do, I do think that there's a lot to be hopeful of.
Speaker B:I do also think that there's a lot to be leery of.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And I, you know, I went in and I taught Latin all of fourth grade and fifth grade from my, my daughter.
Speaker B:And I hope I get invited back to do it for my son.
Speaker B:But you know what?
Speaker B:Like, soul.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Solar panels.
Speaker B:Solarium.
Speaker B:Soul is actually where we get the word soil, because they would put their hand on the soil, and it would be warm, Warmth from the sun.
Speaker B:So the word soil is soul.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Helios Helicopter.
Speaker B:Right in the, in the sky, in the air.
Speaker B:So there's all sorts of ways and things that happen that I, I, it frustrates me that we're not making it easier on children, Right.
Speaker B:Because they would naturally be bilingual and then they would roll in through their languages.
Speaker B:I mean, because I'm 52, and when I was, I was, I had a natural knack for languages, so I had gotten into GW for Romance languages.
Speaker B:I passed it up, but flew it in Spanish, and I taught myself French.
Speaker B:And so it had always been interesting to me thinking about my parents who knew German and French in Podunk coal country, Pennsylvania.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And I was like, how the heck.
Speaker B:But they both are extraordinarily successful.
Speaker B:They both have that sense of duty and the volunteerism.
Speaker B:And so I think that's also a lot of what you see in what I'm offering.
Speaker B:You know, the Native American book is about, like, value your time.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And it, it's a reminder, you know, the next page of the one that I was, I had showed you was just about, like, okay, every month is a new moon, and then we get to the, you know, so the new moon is where we're planting our seeds, right.
Speaker B:And then it grows full moon, and then they're dying back, and then we plant a new seed, which is talking about projects.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker B:It's talking about, you know, our stages of life and how to honor that gracefully and, and to get a real understanding of what can I bite off that I can actually chew?
Speaker B:Like, what, what can I do that I'm actually going to be effectual at?
Speaker B:And, you know, and, and have something that's really valid to pass on now.
Speaker B:The World War II book, the World War II Coloring Book, and that's under Callie Boswell.
Speaker B:It's an epic adventure for young historians.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That just went up this weekend, too.
Speaker B:And again, it's not just the Jeep and the Battle of Britain and the ships at Pearl harbor, right?
Speaker B:It's this, it's this, these images of the bread lines, it's these images of the dust bowl, it's these images of FDR in his wheelchair.
Speaker B:It is these images of these kids who are getting tested to see if they're going to be an A1.
Speaker B:And you know, they're all so scrawny because they were malnourished through the entire Great Depression.
Speaker B:They weren't, there was not enough food and we didn't understand our agricultural practices, which you and I are talking about now, and how to shift out different crops rotations to avoid the dust bowl.
Speaker B:And so they weren't able to participate.
Speaker B:And the guilt and the anger that came with that and then the ones that do go to war, you know, and the refugees getting on the, on the trains.
Speaker B:So it really is a very well rounded book and it, and it is bringing to young readers like Holocaust, what the heck is that?
Speaker B:You know, So I think that for too long we've watered it down and made it more about the battles versus the causes, right.
Speaker B:And human factor, which that has to be everything.
Speaker B:And so for me, bringing in women, women on the home front, you know, I love to read books and I'll just very quickly say one of the ladies in the book is Ruth Gruber that I started this with.
Speaker B:But another is a woman named Helena hall.
Speaker B:And Helena hall was fascinating.
Speaker B:She was in her 60s and she became an ARP warden.
Speaker B:She was not married, she had no kids.
Speaker B:She was the town librarian.
Speaker B:She wrote, hand drew her Christmas cards.
Speaker B:She was tough.
Speaker B:And in her observations for mass observation, she wrote that the WI, the Women's Institute, got all of its seeds from Mrs. Roosevelt.
Speaker B:Now I'm going to estimate that I've probably read over a million pages.
Speaker B:I don't think that that's like a, I don't really think that's like a far fetched thing.
Speaker B:When you think about the tens of thousands of papers I have, plus the books, I have never seen that anywhere.
Speaker B:Wow, I've never seen that anywhere.
Speaker B:So reading does enlighten you.
Speaker B:And you, you do think, how smart is that?
Speaker B:Like they weren't just sending food, they were sending seeds.
Speaker B:Compact, tiny, could fit in a waxed bag in case the weather got to it.
Speaker B:And then everyone in England could then plant their onions, plant their victory garden.
Speaker B:So, and super practical.
Speaker B:So I think that that's the magic.
Speaker B:The other book just to finish up, I'm sure We're running out of time.
Speaker B:Is unlock your inner magic a practical guide.
Speaker B:And you know, our intuition does, it does guide us all the time.
Speaker B:You know, don't leave your house now, or don't, don't go down the highway today or whatever.
Speaker B:We've all had those moments of deja vu.
Speaker B:And I really do believe that, that, that is just our inner, our inner knowledge and we're tuned in and we're listening.
Speaker B:And so this is an important book because it's, it's validating the ways that we get those messages which to me are messages that, you know, perhaps as it would be like a godwink.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Yes, Kathy would say, right, like a godwink.
Speaker B:So they are.
Speaker B:God winks when we hear that voice of God and we, or we see something and we must honor it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I think just as much as the cardinal coming to the window that signifies to someone's heart that the loved one is there.
Speaker B:All of these other things that perhaps people had, have in the past considered a cult or paranormal or woohoo in reality are simply our, our other senses.
Speaker B:And those were senses that just have gotten lost in the noise.
Speaker B:And if we can go back and yet remember that we must be grounded.
Speaker B:We are human beings living that spiritual life, then this becomes a really valuable tool.
Speaker B:But so often I think that people are just.
Speaker B:I see it, I see it.
Speaker B:I don't know how it is in your world right now, but my, my people are either totally doing great and they're hanging in there or they're not doing well at all.
Speaker B:There doesn't seem to be a lot in the middle right now.
Speaker A:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker A:People are struggling or they're doing well.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:They're either like putting one foot in front of the other and dealing with what's life's rolling at them, or they're really not doing well and all the medications and all that stuff in the water supply.
Speaker B:And so I think that even politically we're seeing the pendulum just sort of go all over the place.
Speaker B:And so really in the middle is right where we need to be.
Speaker B:Like EQ plus IQ plus Creative plus spiritual.
Speaker B:You know, it all is.
Speaker B:That's, that's the moderation and the balance that we're all needing and looking for.
Speaker B:And you know, my perfect client is the high achiever.
Speaker B:Somebody who has.
Speaker B:Is confused, is perhaps fallen off their path.
Speaker B: my first business was the Inc: Speaker B:And, you know, I have the hypnosis and all the rest of it, but the dream analogy, but just all the ways that we can walk more purposefully each day and in the noticing in a gentle way to sort of refocus that energy back onto our paths.
Speaker B:And it's an honor to do that.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:So I love to ask my guest this question.
Speaker A:What do you want your legacy to be?
Speaker B:It's been a struggle when I answer that, because I'm.
Speaker B:I'm very productive.
Speaker B:But I think that it's really all about love and humanitarian and stewarding the earth and intuition for me.
Speaker B:We didn't speak about this, but I have lovely parents.
Speaker B:It's a non sequitur for me now.
Speaker B:It was not earlier in my life, but it was held hostage.
Speaker B:My father was a government official.
Speaker B:Our story ended well.
Speaker B:So many do not.
Speaker B:So for me, when I say that I sort of live with death, I think perhaps that was the roots and.
Speaker B:And then just being me, the mysteries and great grandmothers who were midwives and, you know, kind of like all of that.
Speaker B:So I am an intuitive.
Speaker B:I do have the gift.
Speaker B:I would say I'm probably one of the best in the world.
Speaker B:But I don't necessarily believe, Keith, that we always need to know what's coming down the pike for us.
Speaker B:Perhaps we need the healing of the trauma of the past and to learn how to facilitate our own communication with those that we've lost and.
Speaker B:And that we had unfinished business with the future.
Speaker B:I think we really just need to understand that we're.
Speaker B:We're ready, we're prepared, and that whether that day comes tomorrow or in, you know, 50 years, we've got the wherewithal to deal with that.
Speaker B:But there are peaks and valleys to the gift.
Speaker B:Some of the peaks have been that I've predicted cancer accurately many times or where an illness is at in the body.
Speaker B:And so despite the fact that I'm an academic about to have an academic book, I have to incorporate that emotional intelligence and intuitive being.
Speaker B:And that's a challenge because spirit, right, has a bad rap, like we say, when somebody's a drunk, that they're, you know, delving into spirits or schizophrenia.
Speaker B:So there is always a responsibility element with me that any client of mine understands and does not escape.
Speaker B:So for me, the way that I have followed those rules was to work out of psychologists offices or psychiatrists offices or have my ob gyn, you know, whomever, be the referral system so that I knew that whoever I was working with was at a.
Speaker B:A moment of understanding.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So that challenge of legacy, I think is probably the biggest thing is bringing home all of the intuitive, the emotional intelligence, the humanitarian, the compassion, the heart, and then funneling that into practical means.
Speaker A:That's good.
Speaker B:You like that?
Speaker A:I do like that.
Speaker A:Where can people find your books and connect with you on social media?
Speaker B:Thank you so much.
Speaker B:So I'm at Caliclaire C A L L I E C L A I R E or Homefront Diary, which is the World War II.
Speaker B:The speaking, the lectures and then the books are all online.
Speaker B:And it's the Native American spirit wheel dream journal and it's unlock your inner magic.
Speaker B:And The World War II Coloring Book, an epic adventure for young historians is under Kali boswell and caregivers.
Speaker B:911 will be out in the next two weeks.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Thank you, sweetie.
Speaker B:That will.
Speaker B:That's talking about what happened when I was the medical power of attorney for my mother in law.
Speaker B:So it is part memoir and part what to look out for and what you must know and to preserve your sanity and your life and your livelihood because it can really rip a family apart.
Speaker B:So that's what that one's about.
Speaker B:But they, they should all be under the same author central there.
Speaker B:And then hopefully they'll be coming to Barnes and Noble soon because I am on IngramSpark.
Speaker B:So I appreciate you.
Speaker A:Well, thanks so much for coming on.
Speaker A:Blessings on the work you do.
Speaker A:And we'll be looking for that new book that's coming up because I'm sure there'll be a lot of help for people who are dealing with that stage and that phase of their life or going to be dealing with that stage and phase of life.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Sandwich Caregiving.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Thank you so much, Galley.
Speaker B:Thank you.
