Episode 110
Unlocking Hope: John Labman's Guide to Overcoming Childhood Trauma
John Labman shares his profound journey of overcoming a traumatic childhood marked by abuse and emotional turmoil. As a licensed professional counselor and liberation teacher, he emphasizes the importance of recognizing the hope that exists within each individual, even amidst suffering. Labman highlights the common mistakes he made during his recovery, including not trusting his own intuition and seeking validation from harmful spiritual leaders. Through his experiences, he has developed a holistic approach to healing that integrates psychological and spiritual practices, teaching others how to navigate their emotions and thoughts effectively. His insights serve as a guiding light for those struggling with trauma, reminding them that healing is possible and that they are not alone in their journey.
In this conversation, Jon Labman shares his journey of overcoming childhood trauma and the role of hope and spirituality in healing. He discusses the importance of therapy, the influence of mentors, and the mistakes he made along the way. Jon emphasizes the need to trust one's inner voice and the integration of various healing practices. He also highlights the physical manifestations of trauma and shares success stories of clients who have transformed their lives. Finally, he talks about his book 'Being Human and Waking Up' and his desire to leave a legacy of hope and understanding.
John Labman, a seasoned professional counselor and liberation teacher, shares a profound narrative of resilience and transformation following a deeply traumatic childhood. He recounts his journey from living with abuse and neglect to discovering hope and purpose through spirituality and therapy. Labman's early life was marked by turmoil, which he initially confronted through the lens of religious trauma. His transformative moment came when he applied to an international school, where he experienced a pivotal scholarship miracle that reignited his belief in a higher power. Labman's story underscores the importance of recognizing and addressing inner wounds, illustrating how trauma can shape one's perception of self and spirituality. Through his insights, he emphasizes that the journey to healing often involves navigating the complexities of mental health and spiritual awakening, ultimately leading to a holistic approach to well-being that integrates mind, body, and spirit.
Takeaways:
- John Labman emphasizes the importance of recognizing the hope in your heart, even amidst suffering.
- He advises that spiritual seekers should trust their inner voice and feelings to avoid abusive mentors.
- Trauma often manifests physically in the body, leading to chronic tension and various symptoms.
- Labman learned to integrate various healing practices, including mindfulness and emotional awareness, for holistic healing.
- It's crucial to discern whether a spiritual teacher creates a safe space for questions and personal truth.
- Healing is possible even from severe trauma, and support can come from therapy and community.
Transcript
My guest today is John Labman.
Keith:John has made all the psychological and spiritual mistakes possible in recovering from a traumatic childhood and moving towards an integrated and functional life as a liberated human being.
Keith:He now teaches others how to be human, wake up their spiritual reality, while avoiding the common mistakes that he made.
Keith:John is a licensed professional counselor and a special certifications in trauma treatment, licensed massage therapist, certified yoga teacher, energy healer and liberation teacher.
Keith:Well, John, welcome to the podcast.
Keith:How you doing today, Keith?
John Labman:I'm really happy to be here and I want to recommend that all your listeners press like and give you five star ratings because you're doing this out of your service to God and your love for humanity.
John Labman:And I want you to get some encouragement too.
Keith:So I appreciate that.
John Labman:I'm doing fine.
John Labman:Really happy to be here.
Keith:Good to have you on.
Keith:So I'm going to ask you my favorite question.
Keith:I love to ask all my guests, what is the best piece of advice you've ever received?
John Labman:Best piece of advice I've ever received is to notice that you have hope in your heart, even if you're suffering a lot.
John Labman:And that hope is seen in the fact that you're seeking help.
John Labman:So anybody tuning into a podcast like this is seeking some kind of help for their lives.
John Labman:And we want to say, I want to say there is hope in your heart.
John Labman:The other thing that I want to tell people is the God that you're seeking is already right here in your heart of hearts.
John Labman:So you don't have to look anywhere else.
John Labman:It's all right here already.
Keith:That's interesting.
Keith:Interesting quote.
Keith:I hadn't thought about that.
Keith:It's always fun for us as believers because we know that God is placed in our hearts and he's there to give us comfort, to give us direction, give us wisdom.
Keith:And so it's always fun to be reminded that we don't walk this planet alone, but we have that person alongside of us.
John Labman:That's right.
Keith:I'm always curious, for people like yourself, who are some people in your life who served either as an inspiration for you or a mentor on your journey?
John Labman:Well, I would say there are two categories of people like that.
John Labman:There were the psychotherapists that I worked with, and that starts with Pat McGrath in Princeton, New Jersey, although she's retired now.
John Labman:Joan Fisher in New York City, who I worked with for four years every week, and somebody named Mark Falanga who's out here in Eastern Pennsylvania.
John Labman:And they were the psychological people who were so influential in my life, as well as a woman named Sandra Glickman.
John Labman:In Iowa, who did both psychological and spiritual work with me.
John Labman: a married couple I met in the: John Labman:Adyashanti, who's a very famous Eastern mystical teacher and also combines Christianity with Buddhism and Hinduism.
John Labman:And David lachapelle, the late David lachapelle, who is from Colorado and Alaska, and Samuel Bonder, and most of late would be Angelo, Dr.
John Labman:Angelo DiLullo, who's from Boulder, Colorado, and Richard Farmer.
John Labman:So many people.
John Labman:I'm almost 70 years old and in March I'll be 70.
John Labman:So it's a whole list of people.
John Labman:I hope it's not overwhelming your audience too much.
Keith:I'm sure that if we think about our lives, there are a lot of people who have influenced us along the way.
Keith:So the longer you live, the more people you run across that impact you.
John Labman:Absolutely, yeah.
Keith:So tell us about your personal journey of overcoming trauma in childhood and how it led to your current path.
John Labman:Well, I'm going to try to condense this again.
John Labman:It would be hard to believe now, but I was raised with sexual abuse at home and bullying at school.
John Labman:And although I was part of a religious tradition, I did not believe in God in those days.
John Labman:And when your parents are so crazy, you tend not to believe in God because your parents represent God to you.
John Labman:And so at around 15, things got really bad.
John Labman:I was coming home from school every day with terrible headaches, and somebody showed up to show a film in my 10th grade class, and there were 750 of us in the auditorium.
John Labman:And that was a film about an international high school on the south coast of Wales that was the very first of the United World colleges.
John Labman:And this one was called United World College of the Atlantic.
John Labman:And something in me leapt up and said, boy, get me out of here.
John Labman:Let me see if this is my ticket out of all the abuse and trauma that I was going through.
John Labman:Would it be a new start for me?
John Labman:And I don't know where that came from, but your audience members may have had moments in their lives where something leaps and they say, okay.
John Labman:And I think really it was the prompting of God.
John Labman:And at the time I applied to the school, I got in, but they told me that our family, as a middle class family, had too much money to qualify for scholarship.
John Labman:So I put God to the test.
John Labman:And I said, God, if you exist.
John Labman:I was such an arrogant little whippersnapper in those days.
John Labman:If you exist, give me the scholarship that's impossible to get and I'll believe in you.
John Labman:And I waited a whole month Just like biting my teeth.
John Labman:I'm sure, you know, people listening have had these experiences too and saying, oh, is this letter ever going to come?
John Labman:There was a postal strike in Wales and so it took a month for that letter to come.
John Labman:But by golly that letter came and said I had a full scholarship, I had a ride, I was going to be able to go.
John Labman:And that began my spiritual journey because I, I also kept my promise and I believed in God thereafter and I went to school there.
John Labman:I converted to Evangelical Protestantism.
John Labman:I was originally in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church which later emerged well I think they may still exist, but then later in the Reformed Presbyterian Church Evangelical Synod.
John Labman:And I went to college at Covenant College which was recommended by Dr.
John Labman:Francis Schaeffer who was the leading evangelical thinker at the time time.
John Labman:And I got my degree from there and I was pre seminary but in the meantime my mother divorced her second husband.
John Labman:I had no home to go to.
John Labman:My life was sort of up in the air and some friends at school said why don't you come and spend summer in our church community.
John Labman:And so I did and I was love bombed into joining them and talked out of going to Seminary at St.
John Labman:Louis which would have been Reformed Theological Seminary.
John Labman:And I went and lived in this community which very quickly there was a schism in the church.
John Labman:The elder that I had stayed with in the summer was excommunicated with his whole family.
John Labman:And the family, I mean the church gradually devolved into a mind washing or brainwashing cult and over many years of kind of terror and fear, devolved and devolved and devolved into probably an ex member set the church on fire.
John Labman:And at that time we were tasked both with rebuilding the church and we were told that somebody was hiding secret sin in the church.
John Labman:And so the whole of the membership of the church, about 120people were suspended from communion and went into daily counseling.
John Labman:It was sort of torture and agony and psychological pressuring and you know, I finally fessed up what I thought was a secret sin which to me was.
John Labman:And they didn't believe me.
John Labman:And they said as we were completing the refurbishing of the burned down church because all of us had to work on it.
John Labman:They said if you come back into this church and you haven't confessed your secret sin, you're a hypocrite and doubly damned to hell.
John Labman:That's choice number one.
John Labman:If you leave the church and break your vows, then you're going to hell.
John Labman:Maybe not doubly damned, but.
John Labman:And you'll probably die because of the HIV epidemic.
John Labman:In those days of aids, I'm like, great, okay, so they put me into a double bind, a false double bind.
John Labman:As again, I'm sure many of your listeners have been put into these odd places where they're supposed to make a choice given to them by someone else that doesn't really meet the needs of their own heart or their own life or their own truth.
John Labman:And I paced the floors for six months till 3am in the morning, went to work the next day.
John Labman:Anyway, I was supervising a new word processing center when the technology was brand new in the 80s and did my job and came home and got subjected to that sort of torture every day.
John Labman:And eventually some little still voice in me said, you know, you've got to get out of here.
John Labman:And so when all the guys that lived in my house were gone one morning to do something that I didn't need to do, I packed up all my stuff and I fled.
John Labman:And next day found me right in a therapist's office.
John Labman:And that therapist said the thing that I was mentioning earlier.
John Labman:She said I was going there feeling suicidal, feeling like I had broken my promises to God.
John Labman:I had been a strict celibate for seven years in my 20s, a babe that kept the Sabbath holy, did everything they told me, but I was allegedly in some kind of secret sin.
John Labman:And something inside of me said, there's something wrong with this.
John Labman:That little, little voice of truth that we have that we often ignore.
John Labman:And everybody who's listening, you know this.
John Labman:You've often ignored your deepest, truest intuition because some authority figure tells you otherwise.
John Labman:But this therapist said to me, you wouldn't be coming to me unless you had some hope that things could get better.
John Labman:And so she identified a deep hope that I didn't realize I had.
John Labman:And the other thing she did was finally asked me what I thought and felt about anything.
John Labman:Because in a brainwashing cult, you're only interested in saying what they want you to say, and they want to hear what they want to hear.
John Labman:And they want to hear the doctrine that you've been taught come out of your mouth, and they want to hear your obeisance to them, the elders and the woman who actually was behind them, who ran the church.
John Labman:They don't want to know anything really about you, even though they claim they do.
John Labman:And so this therapist was the first person in my life who'd ever been actually interested in me other than the founder of the church who love bombed me.
Keith:As you look at this story, I'm curious.
Keith:I don't want to Interrupt.
Keith:But I want to kind of go.
Keith:Because you had a really traumatic experience there.
Keith:Besides helping you to kind of be able to voice that in therapy, what other things did she do to help you deal with that personal trauma?
Keith:Because I know a lot of people are dealing with trauma and they're not even sure where to start.
Keith:What was the breakthrough moment for you as you were trying to overcome that traumatic event?
John Labman:The breakthrough moment was that she actually said, we're going to treat this as a divorce.
John Labman:We're not going to treat it as a religious problem or as a doctrinal problem.
John Labman:We're going to treat it as a breakup.
John Labman:Because you've lost your whole community and your family, the mother and father figure and all of your siblings.
John Labman:They're all gone.
John Labman:And because she.
John Labman:I mean, I didn't even remember the original trauma that was going on at home.
John Labman:So we never worked on that.
John Labman:But she treated this as a terrible divorce and treated me like I was suffering from, you know, post divorce syndrome.
John Labman:Like, I didn't know where to go.
John Labman:I didn't know what to do.
John Labman:I didn't know who I was.
John Labman:I had no idea who I was in the world.
John Labman:And again, I think your listeners can relate to having those moments where, like, I thought I was this person and I'm not this person at all.
John Labman:Who am I?
John Labman:Right?
John Labman:And so I think she really steered it that way and really focused me on what was I feeling and was I feeling safe?
John Labman:Which I learned later as classic trauma treatment.
John Labman:And so from her, I said, ooh, I really like this kind of work that she's doing.
John Labman:I think I'd like to do this kind of work, but I had other things to do in the meantime, and I didn't get to it right away.
John Labman:I went to New York and studied acting, singing, dancing, because I was a trained vocalist.
John Labman:And I had two Broadway coaches who thought I could sing on Broadway.
John Labman:And when I realized I hated performing and it felt inauthentic, and I didn't really want to feel anybody else's feelings, I wanted my own.
John Labman:I then began a search into Eastern spirituality, given my terrible experience in the.
John Labman:In that orthodox variety of Christianity.
John Labman:And I started working with some people while I was living in Philadelphia, mind you, I was working with some people in New York.
John Labman:I would go up every Wednesday night.
John Labman:I was so passionate about this, and listen to people talk about how to live in the present moment, what we call mindfulness now.
John Labman:And they taught me how to meditate on a long meditation retreat in Hawaii.
John Labman:And they gave me the second Half of my model for how to be a healer, which was use breath, work, use the body.
John Labman:They did deep tissue massage therapy to loosen very old wounds in the body, use meditation, use mindfulness, use counseling.
John Labman: And that kind of, from: John Labman:And I was so in a hurry to move out of doing administrative work to doing the work that I do now with people, that the easiest and first thing to do wasn't to take a PhD, but I could get a massage therapy license in one year, part time, every evening, three hours a night for a year.
John Labman:And so I learned to work with people first physically, and then I added the other skills later, the emotional skills, meditation skills.
John Labman:I became a yoga teacher, I became an energy healer and did a three year certification in that.
John Labman:And all of these things I've sort of combined so that when people walk into my office, I can help them on all kinds of levels, sort of holistically.
John Labman:And really the thing that I've noticed most is that I can hone right in on where is it that you're really hung up.
John Labman:And so what I do now is I teach people how to be human beings because nobody teaches us how to deal with our thoughts or our feelings.
John Labman:We never talk about them overtly.
John Labman:And I also teach people, okay, once you know how to be a human being, I can teach you how to wake up spiritually.
John Labman:And so my journey really gave me all.
John Labman:I mean, there's all these formal certificates and all that that I sent you, you know, information about that.
John Labman:People don't even want to see them on the walls.
John Labman:They're in a book in my desk.
John Labman:Nobody ever asks.
John Labman:But, you know, the people listening know that if you find somebody that really gets you, you can work with them, they can teach you the basics.
John Labman:Then really you should be on your own.
John Labman:You should never be dependent on anybody else ever again.
John Labman:For the basics of how to be human or even for the basics of your spiritual life.
Keith:I want to go back a little bit to the spiritual trauma you dealt with as well.
Keith:What were some mistakes that you made during your recovery and what did you learn from those?
John Labman:I made so many mistakes.
John Labman:I try to help people avoid the mistakes that I made.
John Labman:The biggest mistake I made was to not listen to my own truth telling voice.
John Labman:Because, you know, in our hearts we have love and contentment and freedom and peace and the truth as essential elements of being human beings.
John Labman:That's right.
John Labman:Built in.
John Labman:I'm coming from a mystical perspective, primarily Hindu and Buddhist, but even the Christian mystics will say this too, that God is right here and truth is therefore right here.
John Labman:And I always kept looking for somebody else who was going to save me, somebody else who was going to teach me, somebody else who was going to approve of me, somebody else who was going to make it all right for me and a ready made family or community so I didn't have to create one.
John Labman:And that was a really big mistake because I kept falling into looking for charismatic but also narcissistic leaders who would take my money and my time and pretend that they were going to make me their equal and I'd someday be special like them.
John Labman:But they always kept their followers subservient.
John Labman:They didn't want equals.
John Labman:And that was the biggest.
John Labman:That was the second biggest mistake I made.
John Labman:I always went to people who reminded me of the original abuser in my life.
John Labman:Freud called it the repetition compulsion.
John Labman:Somebody who loves you but also scares the living daylights out of you.
John Labman:So I would say those are the two biggest.
John Labman:Keith.
John Labman:And they're really, really difficult.
John Labman:And we're all taught not to trust ourselves.
John Labman:Whole culture is based on that.
Keith:I'm curious.
Keith:As you think about your traumatic childhood, it seems to me there's a danger there.
Keith:Like most things I think about, when you come out of an abusive relationship, you're more likely to find someone in your life who feels the role of comfort that the abuser gave you.
Keith:As you think about the spiritual situation that you kind of fell into for someone coming out of an abusive situation, what cautions do you have for.
Keith:Because the spiritual aspect of that's really, really touching because it can really impact your life in some very, very negative ways.
Keith:Your connection with God.
Keith:If you fall into a situation where you find like you did, a narcissistic abusive pastor spiritual leader who will drive you away from God and then Satan just has a lot of field day with you as you're now God is the one who's abusing you as opposed to the human being who was abused before.
Keith:So how do you help people who kind of are coming out of that to not fall into the trap of looking for that in a spiritual mentor who then abuses them?
John Labman:I would say that if you do not feel safe in some way, even if it's subtle, if your body goes into a kind of a contraction around that person, even though they might be love bombing you, giving you all this attention, if you feel some wariness in you, I would pay attention to it.
John Labman:And if you have questions that they don't let you ask, there's a great expression, run screaming from the room.
John Labman:If they can't answer your questions and do it with a straight face and not make you wrong for asking your questions, they're probably some kind of narcissist and they're not interested in your spiritual welfare.
John Labman:They're interested in having a follower and you.
John Labman:So you have to really keep going back to, am I safe?
John Labman:And does this feel like the truth?
John Labman:Because the truth, even if it's difficult, will always calm our bodies down.
John Labman:Lies.
John Labman:Just like you're telling a lie to, a lie detector machine always makes the body riled up, full of adrenaline and uncomfortable.
John Labman:And even if you think, oh, this person looks so familiar, they're just going to be like the parent I never had.
John Labman:That's another big clue that this is the wrong one for you.
John Labman:If they feel like the parent you never had, they're going to be like the parent you did have who was abusive.
John Labman:And again, you better run screaming from the room audience, because you don't be anywhere around that person.
John Labman:That person is going to abuse you at some point.
John Labman:Maybe not at first, but eventually.
Keith:How do you teach people to trust their inner voice?
Keith:Because if you've been in an abusive situation, you tend to just think that inner voice is mistaken and you tend to not trust it.
Keith:So how do you encourage your people you work with to go, no, that voice is giving you something you need to listen to.
Keith:How do you tell people they can trust it?
John Labman:It takes practice.
John Labman:It takes making the mistakes.
John Labman:Hopefully not in such an egregious way as I did.
John Labman:And so, you know, you really have to take a look at the evidence.
John Labman:Feel what you feel in your heart and your body.
John Labman:If you're telling yourself the truth, your body again will be calm and peaceful.
John Labman:Even if you don't like what you know, there will be a peace that you'll have in your heart about it.
John Labman:If you're not kind of on the mark, you will be suffering some kind of fear that doesn't seem to have a rational cause.
John Labman:There's plenty of fear that's there for good reasons.
John Labman:This kind of fear will have a sort of irrational cause and feel like you can't see where it's coming from, but then you know you're not in the truth.
John Labman:Either that or you're in a flashback from trauma and go and get professional help at that point.
Keith:How do you integrate all your certifications into helping your patients?
John Labman:That's a great question, Keith.
John Labman:All of these various skills can be used either for psychological healing or for spiritual liberation.
John Labman:So mindfulness and meditation are great practices.
John Labman:For just calming the person down psychologically, but also for getting in touch with the spiritual heart and mastering, getting to know that a lot of the thoughts that you've had and a lot of the thoughts that people throw at you are false.
John Labman:You're not in there cranking out false thoughts.
John Labman:The thoughts just appear in your mind.
John Labman:Thoughts self generate in your brain.
John Labman:So I teach them to vet their own thoughts.
John Labman:And everybody, whether they're spiritual seekers or psychological wishing, psychological healing, check your own thoughts.
John Labman:Are they absolutely true?
John Labman:Check the thoughts of other people, the propaganda that we call the news, whatever side it's coming from, check the thoughts of other people.
John Labman:When they talk about you, does it sound true to you?
John Labman:And then I also am teaching people, learn where your emotions come from, learn to name what you're feeling and learn, does that emotion come from the truth, actual event that happened, or is it coming from something that you've made up in your head?
John Labman:And that basic set of kind of truisms or teachings is good for people, whether they're spiritual seekers or psychological sufferers and want healing.
John Labman:Both of those cases, all that is true.
John Labman:And I also, because of my training also I'm always looking at, how does your body feel?
John Labman:Are you getting enough sleep?
John Labman:Are you drinking too much caffeine?
John Labman:Are you getting exercise?
John Labman:Because your body audience, your body is the platform that your emotions sit on.
John Labman:If your health and your bodily safety goes, then your emotional life goes and collapses.
John Labman:So those are the basic skills I can teach either the psychologically or spiritually minded.
Keith:I've heard someone say that trauma often manifests itself in the body in different ways.
Keith:What do you commonly.
Keith:So if you think there's been a trauma in your life and you're not quite sure, what are some.
Keith:What are some parts of the body that you may see on a common basis where it's like you're having this problem because your body is holding on to some trauma.
Keith:Is it, you know, is it like tension in certain places or other physical issues that you'll notice in your body because of past trauma?
John Labman:There are so many.
John Labman:And the more adverse childhood experiences you've had.
John Labman:According to the site, the studies by Vincent Felitti at Kaiser permanente in the 90s, the more symptoms you may have.
John Labman:So you may have autoimmune disorders because of trauma.
John Labman:You may have coordination difficulties because of trauma.
John Labman:That was a symptom that I manifested all my young life.
John Labman:You may have.
John Labman:You certainly have chronic tensions or holding in your body, in your jaw, in your neck and shoulders, in your belly, in the psoas muscle, which is the muscle that lifts your leg when you're running.
John Labman:And that muscle runs from the ribs, down the ribcage all the way to the inside of the thigh.
John Labman:That muscle I found for me was like critically tight all the time.
John Labman:And that was the thing that told me I was still suffering.
John Labman:That was the indicator, that inner tension and that big muscle that makes the leg move like that, that's the fight or flight, running or fighting muscle.
John Labman:So that kind of contraction in the body, especially if it's chronic and there isn't anything that you've been able to access that helps it totally relax, that may be an indicator that you have trauma.
John Labman:Now, it isn't always.
John Labman:Some people do work, like sit at a computer and use a mouse with their right hand and makes the shoulder tight all the time.
John Labman:So you've got to have a little discernment here.
John Labman:But typically that kind of chronic holding, also a very strong startle response to loud noises or to strangers.
John Labman:That could be another indication of past trauma.
Keith:I love that.
Keith:I'm always curious, what are some success stories of someone you've helped that particularly stands out to you?
John Labman:Well, there's so many clients, thousands, probably over these last 25 years.
John Labman:The two that came to mind, and thanks for sending the questions because I had to think about this, from all the clients, are two of the most traumatized people that I worked with.
John Labman:And when there's a lot of serious trauma, the basics of my book, for instance, in my short course, aren't going to do it.
John Labman:You really need to work with somebody and gather some trust and some safety.
John Labman:But these two.
John Labman:One is a guy, and I won't use any names because I don't want any identities being blasted across the universe.
John Labman:This man grew up in a family of a lot of kids.
John Labman:His father was a sadistic, abusive guy who used to beat him with a broom almost every day, used to yank him out of bed till he banged his head on the floor and hit him constantly and never explained the reason why.
John Labman:And this kid was also sexually assaulted by a stranger and couldn't go home and tell his parents.
John Labman:I was like the second person he told when he was in his early 60s or late 50s.
John Labman:And this kid was also sexually abused by relatives, and he was emotionally abused until the day his father died.
John Labman:His father was insulting and sadistic in the worst kinds of ways that I've heard about.
John Labman:This man medicated himself with alcohol for a number of years, but he then stopped medicating.
John Labman:He also got himself into martial Arts rather wrestling, and became a champion.
John Labman:And that helped him to get some sense of efficacy in his life.
John Labman:But when I met him, his father had died a year ago.
John Labman:He had seen a colleague of mine for a while, and he was still a wreck.
John Labman:He was always anxious.
John Labman:He woke up in the morning with a start.
John Labman:I wonder how many of your folks listening do that.
John Labman:And he just was never able to calm down.
John Labman:And at times he would go into a blank mind state, which we call dissociation, and be extremely angry.
John Labman:And I've been working with him probably for eight years now, and we finally got into the origins of this.
John Labman:We finally got him to realize how much he's loved other people.
John Labman:He raised a family without hitting any of his kids, without, you know, emotional assaults on them all the time.
John Labman:He loved a wife for all these years.
John Labman:The man's in his 60s now.
John Labman:They have grandchildren they love and take care of.
John Labman:So I had to kind of show him, hey, it's okay to love.
John Labman:Love doesn't mean being beaten by your father because he mixed up love with being beaten.
John Labman:And then I helped him to see that he loved and that he could also love himself and that his abuse.
John Labman:This is so important for listeners.
John Labman:The abuse is not your fault, especially when you're a child.
John Labman:Look at any five or six year old and tell me they have any power at all over abuse.
John Labman:It's ridiculous.
John Labman:Okay, that's person number one.
John Labman:Person number two is a woman whose mother was psychotic and bipolar and grew up watching her mother be carted out of the house on gurneys in straitjackets and gave her entire life to her mother's care and even learned to push down or repress or suppress her own emotions and just feel what mother wanted her to feel.
John Labman:And when she came to me, she was married.
John Labman:She had three kids.
John Labman:This is a dozen years ago.
John Labman:And every time she sat down in my chair, I remember I would kind of turn white and be ready to pass out.
John Labman:She would say, I want to die.
John Labman:Like, okay, every single time you come in here, you want to die.
John Labman:It took a long time to figure out that was her only relief valve from the torment of her life.
John Labman:And again, audience may be able to identify with this.
John Labman:And I've worked with this woman now for a dozen years.
John Labman:It's taken a long time.
John Labman:She has bipolar disorder like her mother, but she's never been psychotic.
John Labman:She's gone to school and graduated and has a professional career, but she never valued herself.
John Labman:She always gave too much of herself away, just like she had to Mom.
John Labman:She really had no sense of self at all.
John Labman:When I met her, she would have been classified a borderline.
John Labman:Borderline personality disorder.
John Labman:But I just saw her as a trauma survivor, and she.
John Labman:Now, she wrote to me the other day, and she said, I can actually exhale and relax.
John Labman:I can actually get up in the morning not feeling like I want to die or feeling the dread of being alive.
John Labman:And I thought, oh, some music to a therapist and a spiritual mentor's ears.
John Labman:It was so wonderful.
John Labman:So there are two of the cases, Keith and I hope that's not too long, but I think they deserve some time.
John Labman:They're such brave individuals.
John Labman:And the healing is available for people who will have the courage to take their fear into the treatment room or into the spiritual center and get help.
Keith:Now, those are great stories.
Keith:So you wrote a book, Being Human and Waking Up, A Therapist Guide for Psychotherapy Clients and Enlightened Seekers.
Keith:What made you write the book?
John Labman:Well, I'm getting almost 70, as I mentioned earlier, and I've learned so much from my own journey and then from the journey of thousands of others that I've worked with, that I wanted to put the simple principles I use into a book that people could understand.
John Labman:It's actually a workbook, too.
John Labman:So they actually can do exercises in the book.
John Labman:And my sense is that everything people need to know to master being a human being, how to deal with their thoughts and their feelings.
John Labman:You know, what thoughts are reliable, what aren't.
John Labman:Where do feelings come from?
John Labman:How do they deal with their physical lives, their bodily sensations?
John Labman:How do they get proper care for themselves?
John Labman:Because Jesus had to love your neighbor as yourself.
John Labman:But a lot of people who come in here only love their neighbors and don't love themselves.
John Labman:And so all of that, plus what meditation is, what mindfulness is, and how meditation and mindfulness dovetail beautifully with emotional and thought skills to either free you up psychologically or take you all the way to liberation.
John Labman:That's why I wrote the book.
John Labman:I wanted it all in one place, very simply put, without a lot of academic gobbledygook, because it's not helpful to people.
John Labman:All the intellect we have is great as long as we can translate it to them in terms they can understand.
John Labman:And you know that, too.
John Labman:With having a doctoral degree, you have to be able to speak to who you're with, Right?
Keith:Because I could give you all my charts, but no one really cares.
John Labman:The certificate's on the wall.
John Labman:Great, right.
John Labman:Like we were talking about earlier, right?
John Labman:And you know your audience has the capacity to heal.
John Labman:And so I wrote the simplest but most comprehensive book I could about how they can heal.
Keith:And how is the book being received.
John Labman:I'm an unknown author, so it's a very slow go.
John Labman:It's been out for a year.
John Labman:But I'm about to change that by being on podcasts like yours.
John Labman:And also there's going to be an offer for your listeners at the end of our podcast, whenever that is.
Keith:That's great.
Keith:So as you think about your 25 years of experience, what's been the most rewarding aspect of your work?
John Labman:That's easy.
John Labman:I get to love people for a living.
John Labman:Now, we don't ever use love in the consulting room as a therapist, right.
John Labman:Or very rare cases.
John Labman:The man whose father abused him and beat him after a suicide attempt, I started saying to him, because I could be a father figure to him, I love you.
John Labman:And there's a man who's dying of Parkinson's, and I say that to him, but I rarely say that to anybody.
John Labman:But the fact is, when we care for those in our care, whether as a pastor or as a therapist or as a liberation teacher, there's love coming out of us for them.
John Labman:And that's the great motive force to feel the love coming out toward another person.
John Labman:That's the greatest reward any human being can have.
John Labman:And I get to do that anytime somebody walks in here.
John Labman:And I think the other reward is seeing the transformation in people's lives.
John Labman:They come in, you know, like the two clients I mentioned, they're sort of some of the most shattered and have taken the longest time.
John Labman:But even people coming in for problems with food or self image, to see them walk out, realizing they don't have to believe every thought that appears in their head, they can deal with their emotions.
John Labman:They can make themselves a happy life.
John Labman:That's extremely rewarding.
Keith:Thanks for.
John Labman:That's a beautiful question.
Keith:Yeah, no, that's great.
Keith:So I love to ask my guest this question.
Keith:You're 70 years old or so.
Keith:What do you want your legacy to be?
John Labman:You know, I'm one of the creatures in a billion billion galaxies in a multiverse that I can't even comprehend.
John Labman:So legacy is kind of a goofy idea to me.
John Labman:You know, I'm such a small part of everything and yet one with all that is I just want people to gain some understanding that there is hope and that it isn't complicated to heal unless there's been a real serious injury.
John Labman:But even then, it's possible.
John Labman:And I just want to leave that wisdom, knowledge, information out there.
John Labman:That's the only legacy I can really leave behind.
John Labman:I don't have any children to my own.
Keith:That's great.
Keith:So John, where can people find your book and buy it?
John Labman:Well, as a thanks to you for being such a generous host and giving so much of yourself to people for free, I'm going to up the generosity and offer people two things, which is first, a free 15 minute consult with me which is worth about $60, and secondly, a copy of my book.
John Labman:And to get that, all they need to do is direct message me on Instagram on which is J O N L A B M A N and use the words being human or a human being if that's how you remember it.
John Labman:And I will get in touch to arrange a free consult and I will send you a copy of my book.
John Labman:If they want to buy a copy, of course they can go to Amazon.
John Labman:I'd prefer to give them one at this point.
Keith:Well, John, thanks so much for taking the time and being an awesome guest on this podcast.
Keith:And blessings on the work you're doing helping people to heal and connect more with the healed self.
Keith:Because God's desire for us is that we be whole and helping people get back to that is an amazing endeavor for you.
John Labman:So thank you and thank you, Keith, for having me.
John Labman:And again, to your audience, thank Keith by supporting his podcast, by giving him five star ratings and really giving him a little love back because it's an awful lot of work technically and personally to do these kinds of podcasts.
John Labman:So thank you, Keith.
Keith:Thank you, John.
