Love from the Inside Out — A Conversation with Orna & Matthew Walters

Keith Haney: 00:00:49

Welcome to Narrative Voices, the podcast where stories shape us, inspire us, and connect us. I am your host, Keith Haney. And today we're diving into one of the most universal and often most challenging human experiences. Love.

Joining us are two extraordinary guests who have helped thousands of singles around the world find lasting, meaningful relationships.

Orna and Matthew Walters are world renowned dating coaches and founders of Creating Love on Purpose, a transformational approach to intentional dating that blends psychology, spirituality and personal growth.

They are the authors of a brand new book, Getting It Right this Breaking Break Free from youm Hidden Blocks to Lasting Love, published by Alcova Press, a division of Penguin Random House. You've seen them on NBC, Fox News, Bravo's the Multi, the Multimillion Dollar Matchmaker, and even alongside Les Brown on CBS Radio.

Their message is clear. Having love is an inside job. And it's never too late to find the love of your life.

Today we'll explore how to break free from hidden patterns, how to date with purpose, and how to build the kind of relationships that truly last. So whether you're single, searching, or simply curious, this episode is for you. Let's get started. Good to have you guys on.

Matthew Walters: 00:02:06

We're delighted to be here. Thank you so much.

Orna Walters: 00:02:09

Yeah, thank you, Keith.

Keith Haney: 00:02:10

My pleasure. So I'm going to ask you my favorite question. You can pick who goes first, but what's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

Orna Walters: 00:02:21

So I'll go first. One of my the first personal growth book I ever read was called the Road Less Traveled by M. Scott Peck. And it's a really great book.

It's a profound book. I recommend it to anybody.

But the opening chapter, the opening paragraph of the opening chapter lays out the whole idea which basically says, life is difficult. It's full of challenges. The sooner you deal with those challenges, the happier you will be.

So instead of putting it off, trying to avoid the trouble in your life, you got to go towards it, you got to work on it, you got to fix it, because that brings you more happiness and more joy over time.

Matthew Walters: 00:03:04

I have a completely different answer, though. I read that book as very, very long time ago as well. And I do like that quote.

I'm going to give a different quote that actually landed with me at a time when it stopped me in my tracks. And I don't have a date on the calendar, but I know exactly where I was the first time I heard this quote. It's a pretty thick quote.

But what I it forever changed me after hearing it for the very first time. And that's why I want to deliver that today. Because holding on to anger and resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

And the first time I ever heard that, I thought, I'm killing myself. I had this long list of events and people and snubs and hurt that I was carrying around. And I thought, oh, my gosh, this is literally killing me.

I'm poisoning. Poisoning myself with these thoughts that I couldn't get rid of.

And then I spent many years working on forgiveness because I think I kind of joke I wasn't born with a forgiveness muscle. I had to sort of develop one myself.

And you hear all the time this idea that forgiveness is for you, and it really is because it sets you free from the energetic dance of the person that hurt you. And so I've let go of all that stuff.

Keith Haney: 00:04:27

I love that. I think I've heard that quote. I know I've heard that quote before. So. Yeah, definitely. So let's get into your story behind creating love on purpose.

What inspired you to become dating coaches.

Matthew Walters: 00:04:39

Well, we like to joke that traditionally people do love by accident and business on purpose, but we flip the script on that. So we do love on purpose and business by accident.

Orna Walters: 00:04:50

Exactly.

Matthew Walters: 00:04:51

We. We basically had. Matthew had his hypnotherapy practice, and I had my coaching business as a manifestation coach.

And we were dating and falling in love and got engaged and, you know, started our relationship off. And we met through a business networking group.

We were both doing a lot of networking, and there was a person, I believe it was somebody I had met through one of these networking organizations or networking event. And she worked at a spa that was newly opened in Hollywood.

We lived in Los Angeles, and the owner of the spa, the gm, had this just taken over this space next door that he wanted to have, like, these monthly motivational and inspirational talks. And she had recommended us, both Matthew and I, to this general manager at the spa.

So we took the meeting, and we recognized very quickly that he made the assumption that we were already doing things in business together, which we had not been. Hey, we had not been doing that. But he offered us a date on the calendar to give a talk in the space. And we said yes. And our people call your people.

Shake, shake, shake. Got the date, went down to the car. We're in the parking lot. We get in the car. Matthew and I look at each other, say, what do we want to.

What are we going to talk about?

Orna Walters: 00:06:12

Yeah, exactly.

Matthew Walters: 00:06:13

And it took us a little bit of time to figure it out, and I decided I'D share my journey to Matthew and he'd share his journey to me. And we were able to make an offer at the end of the talk. And so we put together a weekend workshop called Creating Love on Purpose.

We had no idea at that time that we were starting a business.

Keith Haney: 00:06:31

Wow, a neat story.

Orna Walters: 00:06:34

Yeah. And it just took off. I mean, it really resonated with the people who showed up at that workshop.

And we very quickly built a website and, you know, created a program. We initially called it the Science of Creating Love. We've developed that program over the years, and it's really become our system.

And you'll see that system is in the book because it is where we started in terms of the journey that we take people on. And it became initially the outline for the book.

And then as we reworked it and brought in all the new ideas we developed over the years, it became what is today. Getting it right this time.

Matthew Walters: 00:07:11

Yeah. So that was nearly two decades ago almost.

So we've been helping people around the globe really change their relationship with themselves, because that's the most important relationship you'll ever have.

Keith Haney: 00:07:22

What do you think makes your approach so unique and different and so effective?

Orna Walters: 00:07:27

Well, a lot of people, especially when it comes to dating, coaching. Right. They look at your profile, they look at your, how are you on a date? How do you flirt, how do you find more confidence?

Sort of these outer things that we're trying to change. But for us, we want to look at the person. What are your beliefs?

What are your strategies, what's the hurts and the stories you have about love from your past that are affecting the way you're showing up today? Because it doesn't matter. We could create the greatest manifestation program in the world.

But if you don't deal with your hurts, you don't deal with the wounds that you learned early on in life around love and intimate relationship, then you're going to keep manifesting the wrong thing over and over and over again.

Matthew Walters: 00:08:15

I think one of the things that really makes us stand out is we don't start with dating. We don't even talk about dating. I mean, even in the book, there's only one chapter on dating strategies, and it's in the third section of the book.

It's almost at the end. End of the book. So I think what makes our approach unique is really looking how what our sort of original wound is on our heart.

Because we're all raised by flawed people who are raised by flawed people who are raised by flawed people and on back through time and because There isn't a manual about how to raise a child or bring somebody up. We learn about love in our family of origin just like we learn to walk and talk and do everything else. And we don't want to beg on parents.

We know that's the toughest job there is.

But what we do want to point out is before you knew who you were and before you knew how the world works, you made a decision about yourself in love from the circumstances of your childhood and being raised by these flawed people. Because in some way we all weren't loved exactly how we wanted to be loved in our family of origin. And our parents are like gods.

And in some way, right? It's like we don't have the capacity as a small child to say, you know, gee mom, gee dad, this is really bad parenting.

You know, what I really need is for you to give me a hug and tell you, tell me that you love me and that everything's going to be okay. We don't have the capacity to do that.

Instead we internalize our parents behavior, whoever's raising us, and we say what's wrong with me that my parent is treating me this way? What's wrong with me that I'm not being loved the way I want to be loved?

And so we all take on these limiting beliefs and these false beliefs about what's possible for us in love and in life. And that's where we really start with each client we look at this initial core wounding and we start to pick up, pick it apart. Because it's a system.

It's a system that exists in our, on our, on a conscious and subconscious level.

So this subconscious story, we like to call it a story not to diminish the experiences that you've had, especially those negative experiences in love.

But we like to call it a story and it decision because that empowers the reader and the client to then know that they can pick a new story, they can pick a new, they can make a new decision. And that's really the course of action. We really have.

People sort of change their limiting beliefs about love because a real transformation, you can never go back and revert back to how you originally were. We all know that a caterpillar goes in the cocoon, turns into a butterfly, it's not going to wake up as a caterpillar again one day.

And so our focus really is on that inner transformation. Because when you have that inner shift, your whole outer world experience changes. Because the world ultimately appears as we believe it to be.

Keith Haney: 00:11:04

A lot of people struggle with dating today. What do you think is probably the most common misconception when it comes to dating in terms of maybe, is it expectations? Is it.

Are they putting too much into dating, too much pressure on themselves? What are people getting wrong about dating?

Orna Walters: 00:11:20

One of the biggest things people are getting wrong about dating is they're looking for their soulmate in a profile. They're looking for that perfect person that's going to show up with the right pictures, with the right, you know, information in their profile.

And on that first date, their eyes are going to meet and they're just going to know that this is my person, right? And they're going to intuit and there's. There's going to be this magic that happens.

And when it doesn't happen that way, you show up on that first date and this person doesn't look as good as their pictures, and maybe they're not near as interesting as you'd hoped they were. And suddenly you're like, well, I guess dating doesn't work for me, right? I guess the apps are broken because I can't meet the right person.

It's the expectation we have from the app, the expectation we have from that first date that's setting us up for this roller coaster of what we call the hope to disappointment cycle that people are on when it comes to dating. You build up all this hope.

This person you've probably talked to on the phone or maybe text with for a bit before you meet them, and then you meet in person, and there's disappointment, and it's devastating. It's exhausting. You know, dating burnout is a huge problem.

There are so many people swearing off the apps because they're burned out on dating, and it's because they're riding this roller coaster of hope and disappointment.

Matthew Walters: 00:12:44

I will add that I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is they just go along to get along and that you'll never find your person if you're just going along to get along. We hear we have all these misconceptions about what it's like to be with a beloved life partner, right?

We're told these things like don't rock the boat or pick your battles. I really dislike that one. I'm not at war with my husband. I don't have to pick anything.

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And I think it's really important for people to understand that it's not that you show up on a date and you go, wow, I had a really lousy day. Let me tell you about my lous. Not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is, is if you disagree with somebody on the first date or the fifth date or the 20 months in or whatever it is, if you have something to say that is uncomfortable, that you have to master those uncomfortable conversations. And when you practice through the dating process, you get more confident in sharing what's really going on with you. This is something that I did.

I was very uncomfortable bringing up things. The only person that was allowed to have any emotions in my family was my narcissist mom. She is the only one who got to have any feelings.

Only her feelings mattered. So I never shared what was going on with me. I would be very quiet about it.

And when I realized that I really wanted love and I was going on this journey, I remember being on a first, you know, like a first meet with a guy. I don't even like to call it the first date. It's like the first time we're in the same room at the same time, right?

We were at co. We're at a coffee place. And I worked in the entertainment industry, in the film industry, and so did he.

Everybody I met online in LA was always somebody in the same industry as me for some reason. And we're sitting there at coffee and at some point he jumps up and he says, well, there's this art exhibit down the street.

Would you like to go down the street with me? And I remember clutching the armrest of the chair I was sitting in and I said, no, no, I never want to see you again. I'm sorry.

If you're hearing this guy, I can't remember your name. I didn't mean to be rude, but for the first time in my life, I expressing what was really going on with me.

Because there we were sitting at coffee, having this like witty, cynical banter about the film industry and the entertainment industry. And that wasn't the kind of energy I wanted in my intimate relationship. I wanted that relationship to be different.

I didn't want it to be just like sitting at work and bitching about this or that or whatever. It was important that I partner with somebody that made me feel good about myself, that didn't light up my inner critic.

And so I think when we go along to get along, we miss this opportunity to see if you can overcome these little bumps and challenges and disagreements. And that's why I say you'll never find the right person.

You'll never find a beloved life partner, because challenge is part of the deal here on planet Earth.

Just like life throws you curve balls as a single person, life will still have challenges when you're coupled up and being able to communicate and find your way back to each other after a disagreement or an argument or whatever it is that's going on.

The more you learn how to do that, the better you're going to be at selecting somebody because you'll know, oh, I need to pick somebody where we can find our way back to each other again and again and again and again.

Keith Haney: 00:16:19

So you mentioned that your family of origin has a lot to do with somehow your relationships.

I also wonder, since you were in the entertainment industry, how many people are looking for that hallmark romance that destroys their whole view of dating because they don't find the it's not always snowing, it's not always Christmas time. So how much does what we see on tv, how much we read in books romanticize? Are there relationships we expect to run into?

Matthew Walters: 00:16:47

Yeah, I think it starts so much earlier than that. Right? Think about all those fairy tales. How do they all end?

Orna Walters: 00:16:51

All the Disney princesses.

Matthew Walters: 00:16:53

Yeah, all that. Right? She's asleep. Oh, my God. Can it be any more weird? Like snow when she's asleep and the prince comes and kisses her and she wakes up. Hello.

Like she literally had no life before until the guy shows up and he's a prince. I mean, come on. But how do they all end, right? They lived happily ever after. The end. The end. They lived happily ever after.

I mean, look, in today's modern world, you do not need to couple up. I mean, not too far back in history, women were property. They were exchanged and wedded off as property.

They were part of a marriage arrangement between families. And so, I mean, in other parts of the world, that still exists. And so, I mean, I was.

I think I was in the fourth grade when a woman got the opportunity to get her own credit card. Is that a husband or a father co signing on a credit card herself? That was during my lifetime.

So we don't need to be with somebody to survive in this world. It used to be that people coupled up in order to, you know, bring their wealth together, bring their goals together, raise a family together.

There's all of These things that we needed to partner up. And in today's world, it seems like an option. And it's unfortunate that people are treating love as an option.

I've been talking so much, I'm going to throw this to my husband because I know he has so much to say around this love being treated like a luxury idea.

Orna Walters: 00:18:22

Well, so many people have this misconception that when they meet the one, or their soulmates or whatever word they use for it, that this person will intuit their needs, will know how to make them happy, just sort of because they're the right person.

And because they're the right person, that conflict will be minimal and it'll be easy and everything will just flow and will live happily ever after, like Orna said. But the truth is, it doesn't matter how great the other person is. They're a different person from you. They're not a mind reader.

They have different thoughts, different beliefs, different backgrounds, sometimes different values. And it is in navigating those differences that we really find the strength in a relationship. It's your ability to defer to each other's strengths.

It's your ability to see and recognize what's amazing about the person you're with and be the person there who can support that, that they can step in and become their highest and best self, and that ideally, they can do that for you as well. Those are the benefits of being with somebody who's a really great partner.

We know that all the studies show that we live longer, we're healthier, we're able to overcome illness and disease better when. When we have a supportive loving partner. We're more productive in life when we have a supportive loving partner.

However, you're still going to have to navigate your differences. You're still going to have to deal with the fact that this person has a different strategy for dealing with conflict than you do.

And so you have your differences and you have to recognize them, acknowledge them, honor them, and also work through them.

Keith Haney: 00:20:07

Love it. Let's talk about your new book, Getting it right this time, Diving into hidden blocks. The lasting love.

Matthew Walters: 00:20:16

We're going to show her off here. Our book has. It's a she, her or her pronouns. The book is a she. The book is a she. We birthed the baby. Yeah. Getting it right this time.

Break free from your hidden blocks. Lasting love. This was a labor of love. It's literally our life's work in a book. What would you like to know?

Keith Haney: 00:20:36

So how is your book different from other guides on dating?

Matthew Walters: 00:20:41

Well, I think one of the things I mentioned already, I'll say it again. There's only one chapter on dating in this entire book. It's over 83,000 words and only one chapter on dating strategies.

And it's in the third section of the book. The book itself is written in three parts. So the first act, if you will, is called awareness.

And so that first, that first section of the book is really bringing into awareness and understanding what's working for you in your love life and what's not working for you in your love life. It's, it's kind of a waking up to see what, what's working for you, what's working against you, what's what's really.

How do we nail down what these inner blocks must be about love? And actually, at the end of that first section, we walk the reader through diagnosing what we call your, your love imprint.

So they get to figure out what that hidden block to love really is for them.

Orna Walters: 00:21:35

We call it your you are here spot on the map. Right? You have to know you have an idea about where you're going. Well, I want to find somebody to share my life with.

But if you're not clear on where you are right now and what's in your way, then that journey to finding that person is going to be haphazard, it's going to be accidental. We always love to use this analogy. You go into the mall and they have the little map at the mall. And on the map is the little you are here sticker.

And say you go to that mall and you're looking for that fancy luggage store. It's this tiny little store that just sells high end luggage. But you get to the map and somebody scraped off the you are here spot.

What are you going to do? You're going to stumble through the mall hoping that you're going to find that store you're looking for.

And that's how most people are going about looking for love. When you have the you are here spot, when you have the diagnosis of what's going on, what are the limiting beliefs I have?

What are the emotional strategies I'm using that aren't working? What is my love imprint? What is that core wound? And how is it affecting who I'm attracted to now?

You know, okay, this is where I'm starting so I can make adjustments as I begin that journey towards finding that person. Which leads us to the second section of the book, which is transformation. You want to talk about transformation, I.

Matthew Walters: 00:22:55

Can talk about transformation. So we. So in the those, the first Section of the book is about really looking at what's working, what's not, what is your love imprint.

And the second, the middle section, the transformation section, is about transforming your love imprint.

And so there are things in there about sort of mastering the uncomfortable conversation like we talked about, but it's also mastering your own emotional life. And so many of our clients say, oh, gosh, this is like mastering your emotions 101.

And then the PhD level, like mastering your emotions with a partner, even when you're triggered right. How do you communicate when you're upset? How do you. How do you navigate this territory that we're all.

It's considered taboo because people are so conflict avoided, but there's going to be conflict. Just because there's conflict or disagreement doesn't mean you're not a good match.

It just means you have to figure out how to realign, get back on the same page. And so it's essential to evaluate through the dating process who is a good match for you. Not just because of chemistry.

I mean, we have a lot of clients that are older and they've been around the block a few times and they've gone in with chemistry wholeheartedly and it steered them wrong. And so then they try to go without it. They try to go, well, you know, we hear all the time, oh, marry your best friend.

I would say there's a good, probably 30% of our clients who are divorced from that best friend marriage. Because why are you going to stick it out?

There's still going to be those disagreements and misunderstandings and that all of that stuff, you're still going to have to communicate. We always say, wherever you go, there you are. So transforming your love imprint is a process. It's about really stepping into your authentic self.

And I think one of the biggest parts in that transformation section is about healing your heart, those past wounds. But it's also about mastering communication.

Because the biggest mistake we make in communication is we judge the success of our communication by the response we get from the other person.

And it's literally giving our power away to that other person without really knowing necessarily who they might be and what their triggers are and what their limiting beliefs are and what's really upsetting them might not really have anything to do with you.

And so instead of giving your power away with communication, we say, look, there's only one measure with which you can judge the success, the success of your communication. And that only measure is by how authentic you're able to be. So if you're able to be Authentic, then you have to let the chips fall where they may.

I know in my own process, I was dating somebody. I had this boyfriend. And I remember he said, you're overreacting. And I said, where's the meter? And he got very flustered. He was like, huh?

What do you, what do you mean? I said, well, you said I'm overreacting, like I'm in the red, so where's the meter? Because I don't think I'm over anything.

I'm responding in a way you don't like. I get that, but I'm not over. I'm actually really upset. And so if you don't want to hear my upset, that's, that's a, that's a problem.

You don't want to deal with my upset, but you don't get to tell me I'm over anything. This is appropriate for how I feel.

Keith Haney: 00:26:03

So what I kind of heard you describing there is kind of based on a saying I know you guys use a lot is having love is an inside job. So tell us about how, how you define the inside job and what you mean by that in your practice.

Orna Walters: 00:26:17

Sure. Nobody is going to love you more than you love yourself.

Well, I mean, somebody might, but you're not going to accept it because it's not going to feel right. You think about it this way. Let me tell a story about myself.

Because part of my journey was learning to accept myself because I had a lot of self judgment. I was youngest of five and as a kid growing up, I had three older brothers and I could never keep up.

I could never do it as well as them because I was younger, not as developed physically or mentally. And so I always felt like there was something wrong with me. And in that I became attracted to rejection because that's what love felt like.

Because I was teased a lot as a kid and so love felt like rejection. And so when I would meet somebody who was really into me, he'd be like, wow, you're really cute, you're really smart.

I'd be like, oh no, what's wrong with you? Would be my first thought. And the second thought would be, well, wait till you get to know me. We'll see if you really like me.

And I would probably sabotage that relationship because it didn't feel right. It wasn't resonating with how I felt about myself.

However, as I began this journey of healing and this journey of self acceptance and learning all this stuff about how I can take back control of my emotional life and all the tools that I learned along the way, I really began to go, okay, I began to like myself. And in liking myself, I started dating this person. And I don't remember what was happening.

I think we were having dinner together at her place, she was making dinner and I made some self deprecation, deprecating comment about myself. And she goes, hey, be nice to this guy. You're perfect as you are. I don't think you need to change a thing.

And for the first time in my life, I could hear that and accept it. And I didn't argue in my mind with her. I didn't go, oh, well, wait till you get to know me. We'll see if you think I'm perfect or not.

Because I had changed on the inside, I was able to accept love from somebody who was freely giving it without rejecting it, without sabotaging it. So it really, for, you know, the people listening and watching this podcast, it is about looking at your own story about yourself.

How do you talk to yourself?

How do you feel about yourself if you're attracted to emotionally unavailable people, if you're attracted to rejection, or if you're attracted to codependent situations? What are those stories you have about yourself that you're trying to fix in your relationships?

And instead of trying to fix it in your relationships, fix it in yourself first and then the nature of your relationships will change.

Keith Haney: 00:29:07

What are some tools that you guys have used in your practice to help people deal with the emotional wounds that they're walking into relationships with?

Matthew Walters: 00:29:16

I think part of it is really this, like our different communication templates. We have a communication template we call the shift template S H Y F T. And that is the speak how you feel template.

The speak how you feel template, by the way, is still in that transformation section. Because I still want to circle back to get to the third section of the book.

But it was a perfect question about where we are in this transformation part.

Like I was saying, people tend to judge the success of their communication based on the response they get from this other person and they're giving their power away. So the speak how you feel template allows you to really take ownership of your feeling state. So you get to say, I feel blank when blank.

Or you can inspire somebody and say, I would feel this if you, if you were able to, you know, if you made a request. Right. Like, I know when Matthew and I started dating, for example, in the early stages of dating, I knew I liked a guy to open my car door.

It's kind of a little thing. I grew up in Los Angeles, we're all car people. I liked it when a guy opened my car door, and it wasn't something he was doing.

And I kept thinking, well, it's just not that. It's not that big a deal. Who cares? I like him. Whatever. I can. I can open my own door. But then I spent the afternoon with a friend of mine.

My friend Bill had called me and was like, I need some new clothes. Come dress me. And I was like, ooh, live doll. Okay.

You know, Bill and I had been friends for years, and whenever I'm out with Bill, he always opened the car doors. Like a chivaless thing that he would do even to open it for just, you know, a platonic friend.

And so I spent the afternoon with Bill, and I saw Matthew that evening, and I remember thinking, gosh, I really like that, but I would like this guy to do it, the guy I'm dating. And so nowhere near the car. We were indoors. I remember his place, mine. And I said, I feel cherished when a man opens the car door.

Would you make an effort to open my car door when we go? Well, and it was so interesting because he kind of sat up straight. Like, he was like, oh, you know, his chest puffed up a little bit.

Orna Walters: 00:31:16

I was like, oh, you like that, huh?

Matthew Walters: 00:31:19

And he said, yeah. Oh, if you like that, yeah, yeah, I could. I could do that for you.

Now, what I want all your listeners to understand is because I made the request, didn't suddenly make it a habit. And so at the time, you know, certainly when we went out that night, quite certainly opened my car door.

We didn't take as many notes back then because we didn't know we'd be doing this work together. But I. I know he started making an effort to open my car door, and when he did forget, I was just really nice about it.

I would just kind of stand there by the. By the door, like, you know, and all these years later, he still opens my car door. I mean, I literally.

I know the other day, like, we were running late somewhere, and we're like sort of running to the car, and I was like, I'll get my own door, you know, because he'll still get it no matter what. It's. It's an ingrained habit all these years later.

But making a request and asking, speaking up and really being able to understand, to share what you like and don't like, so that when you're in a relationship, that person that really cares about you knows what it is that you like and don't like, we're so afraid to, like, rock that boat. Like I said before, these little colloquialisms that really mess us up when it comes to love.

Somebody who cares about you wants to know how to please you. They won't be able to make you happy, but they can make you happier. And that, ultimately is the goal.

Orna Walters: 00:32:39

So, yeah, we're talking about transformation and inner wounds. You know, stories about ourselves. And one of our. I want to share another tool around that.

So one of our favorite tools is something we call the inner child date. And it is about reparenting yourself. It is taking yourself on a weekly date with your inner child.

And it's not necessarily a play date, but it is doing something that is playful in that way. And on these inner child dates, you discover a lot of things about yourself that you weren't aware of.

For example, we had a client, and she really embraced this idea of inner child dates. And she was raised by parents who were. Had a lot of issues with money, right? They weren't very. They were very stingy with her with their money.

And they were always constantly talking about money and how much things cost. And she was very aware of all of that. And so she goes, she decides to take herself on an inner child date to a candy store.

And it's one of those stores that's just nothing but hundreds of different kinds of candy. And she gets in the store and like she says to her inner child, she says to herself, okay, you get to pick anything you want.

And after she said that, she heard this voice inside that said, what? What are you trying to buy my love? And that's when she realized that her inner child was still really angry.

And for her, a lot of this discovery from the inner child date led to her really healing this anger she had about her parents and their relationship to money and everything and gifts and all of that, so that, you know, she no longer had that story.

Keith Haney: 00:34:17

I love that. So let's get into chapter three of your second third part of your book. We talked about the first part, the second part.

Now give us part three, because we've been dying to hear what that last section of it is.

Matthew Walters: 00:34:29

So it really is three acts, right? So act one is awareness. Act two is really transformation. And act three is manifestation.

And the reason why we can't wait to hear about Act 3 is because everybody wants to jump from where they are into manifesting the thing they want. And that is one of the biggest mistakes, because you can't manifest from lack.

We talk to people all day long who are crystal clear on what they do not want when it comes to a life partner. They've been there, done that. I don't want this, and I don't want that. And it is emotionally charged.

And then they go out dating and they wonder why they keep meeting the same person that they just were with, but with a different face. That's because they know exactly what they don't want. And there's an emotional charge on it. Do you get it?

Those are two of the things you need to manifest something. You need to be clear on the vision, and you need to have an emotional charge on it.

So in order to manifest, you don't even have to think about what you do not want. Set that aside completely. If you put any focus on what you don't want, it is sure to show up, up again and again and again.

Now, look, if you're on a big cruise ship and you're up in the crow's nest and your job is to find an iceberg, yeah. You're going to look for what you don't want because you got to steer the ship around icebergs. Unless, you know, if you.

If you work at the nuclear power plant, you're going to want, you know, the safety inspector to be looking for things that are wrong when it comes to dating. Stop looking for those wrong things. Everybody's looking.

You go on that first date, second date, third date, and you're like, where's the thing that they're doing? Are they doing that thing? Are they doing that thing you don't like? Are they doing that thing? Are they doing that thing?

And then you find it over and over and over because you're already searching for it to be there. You're on high alert for it. It's charged.

So the reason why we put manifestation last, it's in the third part of the book, is because right now you have, like this filter over your selection process anyway. I mean, you've probably had this experience, Keith, and I'm sure your listeners have, too.

You walk into a room, say 50 to 100 people you've never met before, and some people pop. It's like they're brighter than everybody else in the room. Where most of the people in the room are like the extras in your own personal movie.

They're a little gray and kind of out of focus and in the background. I mean, you know that they're there, but they're not in focus. They don't shine for you.

And this idea of some people being highlighted isn't necessarily Attraction or chemistry, it's just they're brighter. And I know you've had this experience.

You start talking to somebody you've never met because they're brighter and you start this conversation, suddenly find out you have all these things in common. It's not just happenstance. The space between our ears. Your brain is the most powerful computer on planet Earth.

Yes, it's even better than Chat, GPT or Claude or LLMs. This is the best computer and it is designed to keep you alive. That's has a very low bar.

you made it to this moment in: 2025

Your brain thinks it's doing a really good job of keeping you alive because it keeps bringing you similar circumstances. If you've survived to now, it thinks it's doing a good job. But the flaw in the system is your subconscious mind can't judge, it can't analyze.

That happens in the big prefrontal cortex where we judge and analyze and assess things. So your subconscious has no idea if you're alive and blissfully happy or you're alive and miserable and suicidal. It has no clue.

So it's going to bring you similar circumstances again and again and again and again. It's highlighting those.

And for most people that are struggling in love, they are bringing the same similar sort of dynamic that you had probably in your family of origin, probably in those relationships that didn't work out.

And there's, they keep selecting the same kind of person and they give up on finding a life partner because they go, well, all women are like this or all men are like that. And it's this, it's this idea that there aren't all of these varied kinds of people.

People when you look around, you know there are all these varied kinds of people or we hear all the time somebody's like, oh, I've been, you know, people will catalog like on Tick Tock or somewhere. Oh, I went on 300 dates this last year and nobody couldn't find anybody.

Well, that's because they're still finding what is familiar, but what familiar is what they don't want.

Keith Haney: 00:39:04

I love it.

Matthew Walters: 00:39:05

And that's where you'll be. If you jump straight to manifestation. You can't start at the end of the book.

Orna Walters: 00:39:11

So you start with awareness. You get clear on what are the limiting beliefs, strategies, behaviors, wounds that are creating the same situation over and over again.

You Go through the transformation of healing those stories, learning new skills, learning how to communicate. And then you get to manifestation. And that's where we lead you to get clear on the vision of what it is you want.

And the vision is not a list of qualities. It's not this person is this tall, they make this much money, you know.

Matthew Walters: 00:39:42

They drive this car, they drive this kind of car.

Orna Walters: 00:39:44

It's not that. That's not the list. The list is really about the dynamic that you want between the two of you. What are your values?

What's important to you in relationship? What are you looking to co create with someone? And how can you find someone who's on the same page who shares those values?

That's the journey that we walk on through manifestation is how to create that vision of your soulmate relationship, your ideal relationship, so that now you can create it. And we have this wonderful saying. I love the idioms in the English language because they speak a lot about how our brains work.

And one of the ones we use says, I just can't see myself doing that. Now, maybe you're referring to jumping out of an airplane or standing on a stage speaking in front of 3,000 people. People, right?

You say, I just can't see myself doing that. Right. And what you're saying is you're speaking a literal truth.

You're saying, I cannot create a picture in my mind where I see myself doing that activity.

However, if you were to focus on creating a vision of yourself standing on that stage in front of 3,000 people and seeing yourself confident or seeing yourself right there at the door of the airplane and you've got the parachute on and you've done all your tests and you go, you're so excited before you're going to jump.

If you can create that vision in your mind where you see yourself doing those activities, suddenly it doesn't feel so impossible or improbable that it could happen. The question you want to ask yourself is, do I really want to put in the effort and the time and everything in order to end up in those places?

But you're never going to end up in either of those places, nor are you going to end up with that relationship that you're looking for if you don't have a clear vision of what it is, what it looks like, how it functions, and how it feels inside of you when you're in it.

Keith Haney: 00:41:40

Wow, you guys have given us so much good content here. Now I got to ask you my favorite question. You could depict who goes first on this one. Okay, what do you want your legacy to be?

Orna Walters: 00:41:53

You want to go first?

Matthew Walters: 00:41:54

No, I'll let you go first if you got it off the top of your head.

Orna Walters: 00:41:57

I think the legacy I want for us in our work is where we started busting the myth that love just happens by accident.

I mean, sure, you've met that person who, you know, they met their soulmate in high school and they got married right out of college, and they've been together for 75 years, and they raise kids and grandkids and they've had this wonderful, amazing relationship. And you think, well, that's just how it's supposed to happen. You just meet somebody.

But if we could really get people to be intentional about their relationships, intentional about their journey of really first becoming the person they need to be and then finding the person who can support them to continue to grow in that direction.

Just imagine, because happy people create happy relationships, happy relationships create happy families, happy families create happy communities, and happy communities creates a happy world. And that's the journey we all really desire.

Matthew Walters: 00:43:01

And now you just took that little piece I was going to add on at the end. So he said everything there is to say about it. I think that really we want to change the world with love.

That's our legacy that when we pass down to each client, each reader of the book, each person that comes into contact with our.

Our coaching or with our, you know, with our blog with, through our book, however they get this idea and throw out the myth of love by accident, that one day they're just gonna, you know, going about their mundane activities. They're just gonna meet cute like in the Hallmark movies. They'll live happily ever after.

If it doesn't happen, if it hasn't happened for you and you desire it, if it hasn't happened by the time you're 30, probably you need a little bit of tinkering inside. And so I think we want to.

Part of that legacy is changing the world with love, but also understanding that sometimes you do need a professional support when it comes to your relationships. And that doesn't mean that you're, you know, that there's some that you're like, you know, they're like your. Your head is messed up or something.

It's not like we're asking you to go see a couple psychiatrists and go be put on particular drugs or whatever. We're just saying that there's space that every single human being, every.

Every time you've been around a baby, a newborn baby, we love that energy because a newborn baby has no Blocks to love. They will shine that spotlight of love on anyone who's around, and they'll receive love from any person who's willing to give it. They have no blocks.

And that's why we love being around newborn babies. They're in the moment, and they. They just shine that they're like the physical embodiment of the energy of love.

And yet being raised by flawed people in a.

In a family system and in a family dynamic that didn't serve you in some way, we make these decisions and we learn that love is conditional in some way. And you can undo that learning, just like you can learn to tie your shoes a new way. It would be. It would take some effort.

It's not going to happen by magic. Right? And that's the thing we want you to understand. When you meet your beloved, it will feel magical. But magic isn't a plan.

You can't just keep counting on that. Your days will go by without this person that will make every part of your life better. Not because you're half a person and they complete you.

No, not at all. That's a codependent recipe.

But because they complement you and you're interdependent, that they add to every part of your life to make your life better.

Keith Haney: 00:45:34

I love it. So this year in the podcast, we have one surprise question. Pick a number between one and three.

Orna Walters: 00:45:40

Okay. Two.

Keith Haney: 00:45:44

All right. Okay. Would you rather have unlimited sushi for life or unlimited tacos for life?

Matthew Walters: 00:45:54

Oh, that's a tough one. I'm going for sushi, though. I mean, my friends tease me that if I'm.

They're like, oh, you know, if they take me out for, like, my birthday for sushi, they're like, did you bring your hollow leg to fill that up? I can really. I'm like, part dolphin. I eat a lot of fish when we go for sushi.

Orna Walters: 00:46:09

I mean, you're right. That. That is. That's the ultimate decision, because we live in Los Angeles with the best tacos and the best sushi in the world. Right.

Well, at least in the United States for sushi. So I'm going to have to say sushi as well.

Keith Haney: 00:46:24

That's great. See? Never know what that's going to come up with.

Matthew Walters: 00:46:28

And that's why I married him. Like, we're aligned.

Keith Haney: 00:46:32

As we wrap up this great conversation. What do you want our audience to take away from our conversation today?

Matthew Walters: 00:46:39

I just want them to know that it's never too late to find the love of your life. It's never too late.

Everybody thinks that, you know, their age, either too young or too old is part of their problem in the search for love or they think it's part of where they live. And it's never those two things. Things. It's never something outside of you.

There isn't some external force that's keeping your, your beloved from you. You don't live in west side Story, you know, where people are keeping you apart from the person you want to be with. And you know what?

God won't bring you somebody who's already attached to somebody else. There's. There's just. It's never too late. It's never too late. And, you know, people are living longer and it can.

It's something we really want you to understand that if you have the desire to share your life with a beloved life partner, please get this book. And if you're in a relationship but you're struggling, if you're having struggle in the relationship, please get the book as well.

Because the book is really a personal journey. And that's why there's only one chapter about dating. This is really about your relationship with yourself.

And as you raise that level of how you love yourself, your relationships will change. Whether you're currently in a partnership, it will make it better even without your partner reading one word of this book.

So it really is for anybody, whatever it is, whoever you are, if you have a heart, this book will help you love yourself and others better.

Orna Walters: 00:48:06

And I'll just end with this little thing, Keith. No matter what has happened in your past, you are still worthy of love.

Keith Haney: 00:48:15

So where can people find getting it right this time and connect with you guys on social media?

Matthew Walters: 00:48:21

Sure are. Well, you can order the book anywhere books are sold. So it is available in a hardcover book. It's available as an ebook and an audiobook.

So ever you like to consume your books, it's available everywhere online and offline.

So if you're a book person and you want to hold her in your hands and read through it, I'm just encouraging everybody to go to your local bookstore and if they have it, get it there. If they don't, ask them to order it for you. It might take a week to come in. But let's keep bookstores open. They're really important.

So I'm encouraging people to. To get it that way. You can also order the book from our website@loveonpurpose.com and all of our socials.

Orna Walters: 00:49:03

You'll find us at ornandmatthew.

Matthew Walters: 00:49:06

So that's the @ symbol o r n a, yep, that's my name. And then spell out and A N, D. And then Matthew. M, A, T, T, H, E, D. So ornandmatthew on all social channels.

And we just, we would love to hear what you think of our book, so please go pick it up. And if you get the book, we're asking that you do write a review.

And whether you buy the book at Amazon or Goodreads or however you purchase it, you can always write a review on Amazon and on Goodreads. If you're somebody that has a Goodreads account, you can easily create either one at Amazon or Goodreads.

But we're asking for some reviews so that people know what you think of our book and that maybe inspire them to go out and get a copy as well.

Keith Haney: 00:49:46

Well, thank you both for taking the time to share with us and the audience what you do, and you guys make a wonderful couple. I'm so glad that you, God, brought you two together to be able to kind of impact other people's lives as well.

Orna Walters: 00:50:01

Thanks, Keith.

Matthew Walters: 00:50:01

Well, so sweet of you to say thank you. And we're so grateful that we got to be with you today and share with your audience our.

Our journey and how we help people really create the lasting love that they desire and deserve.

Keith Haney: 00:50:15

Well, thank you both.